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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Electric vs. Gas

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bakbone
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/25/2006 : 19:45:31

Took the boat

out for a sail with another C25 last night. Fortunately for me, the other boat was around, when my 1990 Johnson 9.9 wouldn't start

. It did earlier to help me get out of the harbor, but then wouldn't to get me back in.

My question I submit is this. Rather than possibly put 6-700 dollars in repairs (and that's no guarantee) or approximately 2k into a new one, can an electric trolling motor propel a 1990 C25 W/K as well or better than a 9.9 gas motor? Or, should I swallow the bullet and give it the gas!

Any assistance (other than a tow) would be appreciated.

Where the winds always blowing.
Bruce in OK

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2006 : 21:00:32

Ooooh! time for some sums (mafs)

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The electrical equivalent of one horsepower is 746 watts<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Folks have reported pushing our size boat around with a 6hp motor (still water) and there have been many reports of running the 9.9hp at less than 1/2 throttle, so ball park 5hp would move you around in light aires and still water.
So...
so a 5hp outboard uses 5*746 watts
and W=I*V (remember Ivy Watts, his wife!)
or I =W/V
so i=(5*746)/12
=~300Amps
(Let me know if my maf is rong!

You'd need a really big set of cables and a whole bunch of batteries to keep it going for any time at all.

I'd buy the new engine.

paul.

Edited by - britinusa on 09/25/2006 21:01:16

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2006 : 21:24:21

Buy a new motor. I had a 1994 outboard and had an estimate of approximately $900 to fix it. They recommended I invest in a new motor verses putting it into an old one. I bought a 2006 Honda 9.9 and it works great. Glad I went that route.

As far as an electric trolling motor. Even if you had enough battery juice to run it without getting subsequent battery recharges, a trolling motor would probably only move the 25 footer under perfect low wind conditions. As soon as the wind picks up and that is exactly when you need the motor most, the trolling motor is doubtful to overcome wave action and still make headway maintaining direction. If in a river, then there is curent to also contend with. Most of the trolling motors are just that...to troll...they won't propel the boat up to speed as a 8 or 9.9HP outboard will.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2006 : 00:20:04

I used a 42lb thrust trolling motor on my Clipper 21. It was adequate in 10kts of wind but would not go dead into 15 kts with a chop; Feather had a much finer entry than Pearl, a lot less windage and only displaced 1900 lb. So I would strongly counsel you to spend the bucks. If you go with a smaller engine (and I would be surprised if 5 hp wouldn't be slow but adequate) keep in mind that Tohatsu builds the small Nissans and Mercurys with the same powerhead as their own. The bells and whistles are slightly different for the added cost. Practical Sailor found the Mercury to be the quietest of all the small 4 strokes.

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2006 : 03:39:45

My 4.5 hp has proved inadequate in wind and chop on my Capri 25 this summer. A Capri comes in at 3000 lbs compared to your 5000 for a C25. I wouldn't go smaller if I were you. I will be replacing mine with a 6 if not an 8 by next season.

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2006 : 03:41:30

By the way Paul, your math appears correct, but you neglected to consider efficiency. I'd be suprised if it's greater than 85% in real life experience.

Edited by - on

ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2006 : 07:34:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by existentialsailor
 By the way Paul, your math appears correct, but you neglected to consider efficiency. I'd be suprised if it's greater than 85% in real life experience.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
U R correct. The combustion engines are rated by output and electric motors by combination of output (hp) or current draw. They seem to have found a third way to rate trolling motors so nobody can figure out what's what. SO, the draw for the above motor would be 300/0.85 => ~353Amps

This is probably why the companies that do electric drive sailboats are not doing so good. Not to say it does not have its uses.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2006 : 07:43:41

On our lake we only us oue motors for about 1000 yards, we have at least one trolling motor on a 26' boat, he does ok.

Edited by - on

crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2006 : 08:18:31

we're on a small inland lake, motoring distance from slip to sail is about 500 yards. I use a 5 HP merc with no problem, plenty of speed and one of the ladies on the lake uses a 4HP Merc just fine. Neither of these would be adequate in bigger waters or bigger waves or bigger winds. The bulk of my motor usage seems to be motoring back in when I get tired of waiting for wind.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2006 : 09:23:29

We put a new 8hp 4 stroke Merc onto Whisper this season and we couldn't be happier. Quiet, starts great and consumes hardly any gas. It handles 20 knots head winds w/o a problem. Anything smaller would not be as successful when challanged by wind and current.
Jerry

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2006 : 09:45:27

This past summer, a fellow C25 owner tried using an electric trolling motor while his outboard was in the shop, but once he left the protected marina and was in open water, the trolling motor was just not powerful enough causing him to return to the marina. He ended up not sailing until his regular outboard was repaired.

Edited by - on

bakbone
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2006 : 13:53:05

WOW - Thanks for all the answers! Looks like I'll be biting the bullet

and going for a new gas motor, rather than the trolling one. My question now is this - which is the better model

Anxious to get goin!

Bruce in OK!

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2006 : 14:21:41

Tohatsu 9.8 xls onlineoutboards through our association link so we earn a buck.
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/links.asp
I own a Honda and would buy the Tohatsu/Nissan if I needed a replacement. It is the lightest of the "10 hp" motors, comes in XLS (25" shaft) and is one of, if not the least expensive. Virtually silent, available with electric start and alternator. $2100. at your door.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 09/26/2006 16:24:51

georgiaboater
1st Mate

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USA
72 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2006 : 15:37:45

I would go with a basic 9.9 hp.....it will get you out of the harbour a lot easier..especially if facing a 10-15 +knot prevailing wind. Also, you might seriously consider an electric start vs. manual and don't forget you want a long shaft...for sail boats vs.medium/conventional shaft. I mentior these two facts because chances are...especially this time of year...you will walk into your freindly boat/motor franchise dealer and see these "bargain"motors.as senmd of model season reduction...but you have to ask your self...are they really going to drastically improve your sailing enjoyment.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2006 : 18:46:23

When considering a brand also think about who will do any necessary service work. Certainly not in the first years, but eventually, you'll prefer a qualified mechanic to do any work.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2006 : 07:01:29

I bought a Yamaha 8 last year, and while it has been a reliable motor, I have decided that the Yamaha 9.9 would have been the better deal. It was only $100 more, and has more than double the alternator output. It is also smoother running thanks to having a larger, heavier flywheel. The Yamaha 6 and 8 hp outboards use the same basic powerhead, whereas the 9.9 is actually a de-tuned 15 hp powerhead. On an extended cruise, the 12 amp alternator of the 9.9 engine would better serve than the 5 amp charger on my 8 hp.

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2006 : 12:18:37

I think a trolling motor would push my boat just fine in still water, but last week I motored up the channel for about 100 yards into big waves at close intervels and only made 2 knots with my 9.9 Johnson at full bore. I got hammered for a bit until I got into the lee of the breakwater. A troller would have been useless.

Edited by - on

Jmurfy
Navigator

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USA
176 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2006 : 00:29:30

My Yamaha 9.9 4 stroke moves me at 2 knots + in smooth water at almost idle speed in the harbor. The one thing I really like is knowing I'm never overstressing it and have plenty of torque in high wind & high sea's. What Laurence said about the motor power head being a de-tuned 15 horsepower motor makes sense based on my experience with the 9.9. I woulnt consider anything less since I sail on Lake Michigan.

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2006 : 07:08:52

When you find yourself running an inlet in foul, unfavorable conditions you'll need all the horsepower you can muster.

In order to get back to my marina I need to run a very crowded, twisted, narrow inlet where the channel takes me within 15-20 feet of a lee shore and whenever I sail through, I always have the outboard running in neutral in case the wind shifts or dies while I'm going through, or some large sportfisherman or flybridge cruiser with a laughing skipper decides to pass while throwing up a six foot wake a couple of feet from my boat. ( a couple of years ago a 16 year old girl who was fishing off the beach standing in 2 or three feet of water where the channel is only about 15 feet off that beach was actually sucked off her feet by the wake of a big powerboat and was sucked under and drowned. The "captain" proceeded merrily on his way and was never caught.)

On many occasions I've been glad that I had a 9.9 hanging on my bracket and although I'm sure that a 6 would be adequate for most conditions, your outboard needs to be sized to power your boat through the worst you're liable to encounter.

The same goes for fuel tankage. Once I got caught in a sudden squall under the Verazzano Bridge in water 100 feet deep, between the upper and lower bays in New York Harbor in incredibly steep seas with the wind in the nose, and while tacking, my gooseneck snapped like a breadstick.

In went the iron jib, and I thought I was making decent headway until I noticed that according to some landmarks I was actually motoring backwards. I full 6 gallon tank was emptying itself really quickly and I was going nowhere at a decent clip.

Since that time I always carry a spare 6 gallon jerry can of fuel although under normal conditions I'll burn only 12-18 gallons each season.

I look at my outboard as a piece of safety equipment rather than as a convenience or simply as a way to motor into or out of my slip.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2006 : 11:35:33

I agree with Mark and the others who have pointed out a sailboat's engine should be considered safety equipment as well as a convenience. I would suggest choosing an outboard sized for the worst case situation, not just getting back to the dock if the wind dies. On my C-25 I use a 10HP Yamaha extra long shaft, high thrust, elec. start. (I also keep a Honda 10HP long shaft around as a spare.)

-- Leon Sisson

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