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alcohol stoves

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new sailor
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/08/2006 : 01:18:30

Take a look at the picture of my stove. Is it normal for it to flame up like this? After a few minutes the flame reduces to nothing, becomes invisible, and then the stove just makes a lot of noise. Are these just characteristics of alcohol stove or is mine just a piece of junk?

Former owner of a 1989 C25 WK/SR #5862
Clear Lake, TX (near Houston)

http://www.myspace.com/a_boat_called_lafawnduh

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2006 : 07:18:29

When you want to use your stove you have to "preheat" your burner first. A cold burner will flare up.

Let some alcohol into the burner pan and shut of the fuel.

Then light the burner.

After the burner is hot and the fuel is gone, turn open the fuel valve and relight and the burner shouldn't flare up as it did in your photos.

Your photo clearly shows why pressurized alcohol stoves are often known as "curtain burners".

Edited by - on

danandlu
Navigator

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USA
175 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2006 : 07:21:57

On my Reinell 22 (I have a butane portable stove on the Catalina) I used to keep a travel size saline solution bottle filled with alcohol. I would squirt some into the priming cup, light it and let the burner warm before lighting the burner.

This is a bit of a long article but if you scroll down to the pressurized alcohol section it'll tell about pre heating the burners.

http://www.boatus.com/goodoldboat/cookingfuels.htm

Edited by - danandlu on 10/08/2006 07:34:53

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2006 : 09:48:30

Yours looks pretty good. When I tried mine outside of the boat the flame was many times larger! It got the quick heave into the trash. I now use a coleman stove and love it.

Tom.

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2006 : 10:35:17

Here is a much better deal.

http://www.johnvining.com/newstove.html

Edited by - on

dblitz
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2006 : 18:16:52

I couldn't bear the thought of throwing out all that stainless steel that fits our boats so nicely and is gimbaled to boot!! So I bought a Trangia stove on ebay for 8 bucks which is a non-pressurized alcohol burner (much safer). I didn't buy the whole trangia set with all the cooking utensils just the burner. I removed the whole pressure system (burners, tank, knobs) from the original stove and just let the Trangia sit where the old pressurized burner came through. Works for me.

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2006 : 08:29:54

Normal is sort of an arbitrary word. Many of us have had the same experience - or worse - with the pressure alcohol stoves. As Mark said, the problem with flame up is that there is too much raw alcohol in the burner and you have a big flame. It is not efficient and you can catch your window curtains on fire.
Quite a few of us who have had our C25s for a while have taken the pressure alcohol stove out and replaced it with a non pressure stove from Origo. Here's a link to the tech tips page that shows the installation on Snickerdoodle. With the non pressureized system, we can cook anything we want without fear of catching the boat on fire.
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/tech/tech25/pictures/sdgalmod.jpg

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

John P
Captain

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USA
324 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2006 : 08:35:21

Hmmm, didn't they call those the factory installed curtain burners for a reason?? I intend to remove mine, for more storage space, or for a control panel install (undecided as yet)

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2006 : 19:00:40

There are several threads on this issue. After clinging to my pressurized alcohol stove out of sheer perversity (or tradition --I get them confused), this spring I couldn't free the pump no matter what. For about fifty dollars I bought a butane stove at West Marine (yes, I know, they're cheaper almost anywhere else, but there is no anywhere else in Deltaville, VA). Fits in the space vacated by the other stove; lights at the turn of a knob; produced a much hotter flame; canisters don't dribble fuel; can be pulled out for use anywhere else (cockpit, top of the cutting board, dinette table, picnic table at the marina, tailgate of the pickup. . . ). Let's see . . . perverse, slow-heating, obsolete alcohol stove on one hand; compact, hot, convenient, easy to use butane stove on the other . . . tough choice.

Brooke

Edited by - Brooke Willson on 10/09/2006 21:40:48

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2006 : 21:06:13

I think Brooke has it right. I did what Bill Holcomb did and replaced the curtain-burner with an expensive Origo right after buying the boat--due to the many threads on the issue five years ago, and Bill's suggestion. It was fine, but given our use, I'd say a single-burner butane stove that can be stored and used anywhere would probably have been better for us. Heavy-duty chefs have converted to propane, which is a major installation (due to safety issues), but undoubtedly the best to cook on. We just wanted to boil water for coffee and scramble a few eggs... On my new boat, it'll be a portable butane stove from WM or WM (West or Wal).

The bottom line: Ditch the curtain-burner and get something simple and safe--for very little money (or as we did, a little more). No point in starting fires in your cabin!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/09/2006 21:15:13

DGuinn
Deckhand

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15 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2006 : 16:27:55

Preheating of the burner is a must, but pumping up the tank w/20 pumps, per the instructions, will also eliminate flareups. Cleaning the orfice w/a small needle also helps. Parts are still available and the stoves will work well once you get the touch.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2006 : 19:03:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DGuinn
 ...and the stoves will work well once you get the touch.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yup--just like starting a carburated 1951 Ford with a manual choke on a winter morning. Once you get the touch... (I'll take my electronically injected Toyota, thanks.)

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2006 : 01:49:25

Hey, the cook likes the original stove and we have great meals. We have followed all the instructions for years and start first by moving the curtains to the right. It does save us from replacing but if the change comes it would be for the butane unit.

Edited by - on

pegasus
1st Mate

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USA
65 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2006 : 11:00:04

Are replacement parts available for the original stove? Mine appears in good shape - I just have a hard time keeping pressure in the tank.

Edited by - on

dave holtgrave
Captain

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USA
427 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2006 : 09:08:37

i like the alcohol stove.

takes some maintainance but, good and easy.

the preheat is "a live and learn".

it takes very little fuel to preheat, once you guage the right amount, your there

dave holtgrave
sailing carlylr lake in southern illinois until 10/29
5722 sk/tr

/'29

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2006 : 13:31:36

After figuring it out I had no troubles lighting the alcohol stove. (it is an acquired skill) Unfortunately, the admiral never really got the hang of it so I always had stove lighting duties. The final decision to replace the alcohol stove came last spring after the leather washers in the pump assembly wore out.

John (of C25 stove/oven retrofit fame) had a Princess cooktop he previously converted to propane and he graciously gave it to me for the cost of shipping.

All I can say is what a great improvement. It lights instantly, cooks hotter, (important-I can get perked coffee NOW) and the flame is more controllable. Most important of all is that the Admrial/Chief Cook is comfortable using it so I don't have stove lighting duties anymore.

As a safety measure, I keep the propane bottle (campstove size) in the cockpit seat locker when the stove is not in use. Someday I may fabricate a holder for the bottle back there and lead a propane hose all the way aft.

I also have one of the small single-buner butane cartridge stoves you see selling everywhere for $25 to $50. I think that one of those stoves would make an excellent retrofit for occasional use. One of the manufacturers used to offer a stainless variant with a 'marine' mounting kit to secure the stove and a stainless potholder assembly. Unfortunately I haven't seen that model offered for awhile.

I have my original Princess cooktop (in alcohol format, non-functional pump) that I will pass along to any association member who wants it. It could be used for parts or as a basis for doing your own propane conversion. You pay shipping costs. As I recall, on the stove John shipped shipping was around $20.

PM me if you want it... first come first serve.

Edited by - on

georgiaboater
1st Mate

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USA
72 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2006 : 22:32:02

I have read all of the above with interest and have a question/observation. It was my understanding that there is a safety issue using propane stoves in the cabin because of the potential for sucking up the air in the cabin (close quarters)....anything to this?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2006 : 23:10:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by georgiaboater
 I have read all of the above with interest and have a question/observation. It was my understanding that there is a safety issue using propane stoves in the cabin because of the potential for sucking up the air in the cabin (close quarters)....anything to this?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That's not the danger... One danger is a propane leak. Propane is like water--heavier than air, and flows to the lowest point (the bilge) where it can hang around until it builds up enough to be set off by a spark or flame. That's why the factory units in the C-250, as I recall, have a heat-sensing solenoid that turns off the tank (in the cockpit) if the flame is not on in the galley.

The other danger is carbon monoxide poisoning. If you use your propane stove to keep the boat warm all night, you might not wake up in the morning. There's still oxygen in the air (otherwise the propane won't burn), but your blood can't absorb it. It happens from time to time with space heaters in small apartments, and with gas furnaces when the flu is blocked. People die.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/24/2006 23:13:36

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2006 : 05:30:10

Dave,

The propane being heavier than air was my understanding many years ago but since there have been other postings baout this and some seem to use propane onboard, I thought perhaps some of the safety features these days minimizes the concerns you mentioned. Still...I would hesitate before substituting a propane stove for an alcohol stove - I would do some research as to the pro/con of each generally as a fuel and then the safety features of specific stove models.

Alcohol stoves, though, do have that initial flaring up when you preheat and so they are no picnic either.

Non-related to boating, I had what now seems like a funny story but a good warning to others. We were on a family camping trip many years ago and I had set up the tent, tent canopy over the picnic table and had one of the liquid gas Coleman stove units on the picnic table. I now know why they recommend setting up the stove outside of canopies ! I usually would depressurize the gas on the Coleman stove after using it for the day but this particular day, I did not do that. But worse than that, apparently, I left the shutoff valve just a wee bit cracked open - Enough to let an infinitesimally small amount of gas to escape that went undetected. In the morning, i started up the stove and then when I tried to lower the flame, it kept building until it was this gigantic flare. I initially did not know what to do but finally took a pot cover and covered the burner. The burner/stove eventually went out after all the fuel that apparently seeped into the bottom of the stove was used up. But the flare was so high and so hot...it melted the canopy screen that sloped a bit down on that end near the stove. It was approximately a 3 foot hole ! Of course by initial concern after inspecting the damage was if anyone saw me do this wonderful stunt ! There were no other tents or people around us that day and so at least the embarrassment was limited to family members and luckily no injuries or forest fires from this event.

I guess many have switched over in camping to propane stove units because in general they are much safer than the liquid gas stoves that were so popular many years ago. By the way....that stove was not significantly damaged and is still in use today. But I really should replace it with a propane unit....for camping. On the boat, I have an Origo Alcohol unit and have never used it since buying the boat last fall. I plan to fool around with it perhaps this winter especially since I am only used to the pressurized Alcohol units and this one seems to be a more passive design with the Alcohol non-pressurized.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2006 : 15:11:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 Dave,

...but since there have been other postings baout this and some seem to use propane onboard, I thought perhaps some of the safety features these days minimizes the concerns you mentioned...

...I have an Origo Alcohol unit and have never used it since buying the boat last fall. I plan to fool around with it perhaps this winter especially since I am only used to the pressurized Alcohol units and this one seems to be a more passive design with the Alcohol non-pressurized.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The key safety features for a plumbed-in propane stove are locating the tank outside, and having the heat-sensing shutoff solenoid. Factory installations all have it. However, if you use the little propane cannisters, disconnect them when not in use, and store them in the cockpit (not the "dumpster"!), you should be OK.

BTW, I vaguely recall a BoatUS statistic that alcohol stoves were the single largest cause of boat fires. I'm sure they meant pressurized stoves. The Origo is indeed benign--you simply open the flapper and light it--no flare-ups. Close the flapper and it's off. And alcohol fires can be doused with water. The only danger I can think of is forgetting to shut it off--the flame is almost invisible. It's probably the safest cooking device for a boat--just a little expensive, and not as nice to cook on as propane.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/25/2006 15:12:24

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2006 : 17:33:53

Origo

nuff said

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2006 : 18:29:54

Although I have no operational issues with my original alcohol stove, it has lived in my garage for the past four years after having been replaced by a microwave oven.

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2006 : 19:38:05

gosh Don,
How long is your extension cord?

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2006 : 22:04:52

No need for an extension cord.

One of the admiral's standing orders when cruising, the only time the galley is used, is that we must overnight at marinas with showers and power. Also, with the admiral being the main galley slave at home, she refuses to play that role while on vacation (I know, go figure?). This means we eat dinner out hence no need for a stove.

The microwave is good for premade, heat and serve foods.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2006 : 05:29:26

I was just kidding there Don

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2006 : 07:56:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 No need for an extension cord.
..we eat dinner out hence no need for a stove.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That's the best solution--let a restaurant heat the food. Guarantees more fun in the V-berth!

Edited by - on

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