Association Forum - shore no power

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

shore no power

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

SEAN
Admiral

Member Avatar

USA
772 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/03/2006 : 19:50:04

when I plug the shore power in with the leads
disconnected I have power no problem.

when I put the power back to the fuse pannel it shorts
and blows the house plug .

does this pannel look wired right ?
the short has to be in the pannel ?

Edited by - on

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
856 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2006 : 20:39:33

Sean,
I'm no expert and I don't want to hear about you in the hospital.
I got a digital AC/DC meter at Home Depot for $20.

After looking at your configuration, I give up.
You need to contact a professional.

Good luck, Russ

Edited by - Russ.Johnson on 11/03/2006 22:19:03

Bubba
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2006 : 21:06:26

Not sure I can follow all of the wires, but it looks like the neutral (white) wire is connected to the ground bus bar. That's the way the panel in your house should be wired but <u>not your boat</u>. What this does on your boat is make any grounded hardware in contact with the water become a current carrying path to ground. This can create an AC current through the water that could be hazardous to anyone swimming nearby. I'm thinking you've been lucky the house breaker keeps blowing.

With something this serious, I recommend finding someone locally who knows boat electrics to take a look at it.

Another option would be to replace that box with a marine breaker panel such as [url="http://www.bluesea.com/dept.asp?d_id=7989&l1=7460&l2=7989"]Blue Sea[/url]. They'll have dual breakers, which open both sides of a circuit when they go, and they usually have a reverse-polarity indicator. They also come with pretty decent instructions.

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2006 : 21:20:43

Thanks Russ ,

Edited by - SEAN on 11/04/2006 00:38:26

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2006 : 21:57:56

(Pardon an effort at a little Association indemnification here.)

Please don't expect a definitive answer to your question, especially from a representative of our Association. Endorsing the wiring in your house seems outside the scope of this forum. I imagine one of our knowledgeable members will direct you to, or provide to you, a proper reference so you can make the final decision for your self.

Edited by - on

mashedcat
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2006 : 22:09:35

ditto frank

Edited by - on

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
856 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2006 : 22:20:50

Sean,
I give up.
You need to contact a professional.
Russ

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2006 : 00:15:06

just checking ,

thanks Frank .
and the wireing is on the boat

Edited by - SEAN on 11/04/2006 00:40:14

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2006 : 07:17:44

Sean,

Couple of things.

Yes that is on the boat, I think the reason Frank was a bit hesitant above was because he wasn't aware that on the older models they used home electrical boxes in the marine environment. Since your's looks new, I can only guess the DPO or you replaced the box with one matching the original.

Electrical boxes such as those aren't marine rated. You really want to have a panel that is for marine installations. The panel on the right below is an AC panel.

The wire you are using also looks like home depot romex. I might be wrong Generally speaking, Marine Grade Wire is not straight copper. It is braided copper wire that is coated with tin.

Last thing - update either your profile or your signature in your profile to include boat year, model and where you sail - It will help people answer the questions you have.

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2006 : 08:29:51

thanks Duane,
yes your right it is romex ,and I was wondering why
I couldnt find that style pannel in any of the books.

the ac pannel you have looks good, power in with three
circuts to use .
the boat is new to me so I never tryed the power before.
this was how the boat was set up when I got it .
I also enjoy working my own boat ,it lets me learn
what I have and how to fix it .

boeting is new to me so there is a hole world to absorb. and a diferent way of thinking .

this is a great site , and it is nice to be able to ask questions . I wont hold it aginst anyone for not haveing a answer . But talking it out,(more heads the better) we all could have a better boat .
someday what I learn I could pass along too .

seems theres alot of smarts and experince on this sight .
and new guys like me trying to figure there boats out,
some times even a new guy could send you down the right path.
so thanks again for eveyones help.

Ill fix my profile to ,

I will try a new pannel

thanks agian everyone
Sean

Edited by - on

tmhansen
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
397 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2006 : 01:25:09

The previous owner of our boat wired in a couple of residential boxes with romex. One way just lying on the hull loose. I took it all out. Later in my Boat US insurance magazine there were photos of a boat that caught fire as a result of romex. It was not flexible enough to keep up with the constant motion of a boat and broke, them worked loose and started the fire. Nigel Calder's book has been helpful to me as has Don Casey's.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2006 : 06:50:20

My two cents with questions. You said it blows the house plug so is it a GFI protected circuit? Neutral and ground can not be connected together for a GFI circuit. If the plug is wired wrong it will trip a circuit breaker. The white wire goes to silver and the black to brass with the ground to the green. The ohm setting on a meter will test continuity with all power off, check for voltage first before ohm check. You can run checks without taking anything apart. Change wire and read the book.

Edited by - on

ilnadi
Captain

Members Avatar

452 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2006 : 00:06:27

Sean,
All indemnification aside, most anyone who is a professional would be too scared to give you advice over e-mail how to wire 110V. That picture does not look right, Dave is correct about the ground loop (check your outboard to see if there is corrosion, remember that you are creating a ground loop even when your house breaker is tripped). You need to read up alot (Calder is good, not sure it can teach anyone 110V AC in a week) or get a boat electrician.

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2006 : 04:40:09

thanks for the input guys ,
I bought a blue sea AC pannel . The instructions say to mount it within 10 feet of power coming into the boat , or add a fuse .
so I am going to put the new pannel closer and Ill replace the romex .
the new pannel has good instructions to it ,so Ill post some photos when its mounted .

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2006 : 05:43:10

the one i mounted in the pic above is a blue sea. feel free to email me with any q's

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2006 : 06:34:21

Suprised nobody mentioned Don Caseys 'SailBoat Electrics Simplified', it will help enormously.

Also, if you use Marine Components (Wire, Boxes, Breakers, etc.) it also makes things much easier, where necessary they are marked up appropriately, whereas residential electrical boxes are less helpful.

I spent weeks going over Don's book before I plugged the wiring into JD. The solid cable is not only unsuitable due to boat vibration/movement etc, it is a beast to use compared to the multistrand marine cable. I would be ripping that cable out real quick! (With the power off

)

Paul

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2006 : 16:22:57

Here is a link to how I mounted my battery charger and AC panel. The shore power plug is mount in the starboard coaming box.
http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12134& SearchTerms=,battery,charger

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2006 : 19:12:21

thats a nice job Jerry ,
I made a box

I put these slugs in to hold it up and double sided tape

the blank side is for switches or a meter or someting.
I will paint it white and then wire it up.
the pannel wasnt with me or I would have put it in .
it is a 30amp main with 6 breakers Blue Sea no meter with it.

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2006 : 19:17:45

I am putting 2 batteries for the house bank so I will
put them it the bow . i figure the charger up there to.
also i like how you cut tha back pannel , I tryed to pull mine out one time and gave up .

Edited by - SEAN on 11/08/2006 19:27:47

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2006 : 19:23:01

no batteries in the bow.....

you should have a molded battery tray in the settee to starboard. Batteries in the bow create a number of distinct problems. First, the run to the panel is huge, unless you put that in the bow and then every other run is going to be about 15-20 feet. You lose juice to resistance (one of the electrical guys will give you the correct terms) over long runs.

Second, If you need to get to the charger or the batteries to disconnect them its a long haul while underway.

Third, You don't want that weight in the bow!! Keep it as midline as reasonable possible. Weight in the bow is slow.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2006 : 22:34:40

Duane, he has a C250. No starboard trays and a little weight in the bow helps.

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2006 : 04:41:28

ya its a 250 ,
I didnt get to many hits on the 250 site so I tryed this one.
Duane do you have a Galvanic Isoator ?
Or is that for inbord motors ?

and Im ready to get a big wire(1awg) to run from the battery to the motor,
the bigger the less volts is lost .
were on a mooring and a waiting list for the town dock.
so the shore power is for a generator and some day the dock if we ever get there.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.