Association Forum - Light Air Experts: Genoa or Asym Kite?

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Light Air Experts: Genoa or Asym Kite?

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

bbriner
Captain

Member Avatar

349 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/05/2006 : 15:43:08

My largest foresail is a 110, making light air racing an exercise in frustration. So, here's my question - if the sailing kitty can only afford one, which one would you suggest, a 150 Genoa or a Spinnaker? (I have a telescoping whisker pole).

We usually have only 2 or 3 on the boat (total) so I was thinking more about an asymm spinnaker. I do have a spinnaker halyard rigged and my jib is hanked on (no furler). The midwinter courses require the use ofg all points of sail usually.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and advice!

Bill B
Wind Dancer
#4036 84 SR/FK
San Francisco Bay

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2006 : 18:21:38

Although I'm not exactly a light air racing expert, I think I'd opt for a 155 genoa. It can be sailed at closer apparent wind angles and when poled out, it can be a very effective off wind sail.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2006 : 18:28:46

The most common inventory for hanked-on sails is a 150, a 110 and a mainsail with a single reef. That gives you the ability to sail and to compete on a race course fairly efficiently in winds between about 7 mph. to about 25 mph. The 150 is good from about 7 to about 18 mph. The 110 is good from about 18 to 25 mph. An especially skilled sail trimmer can extend the upper and lower limits a little.

If you want to compete in really light-air races, there's no substitute for a spinnaker of some type. Spinnakers are made with different strengths of fabric. A very light weight fabric (which is what you would want for true light-air sailing) can only be used in winds below about 12 mph.

If you only have a 110 and a cruising chute, then you don't have a sail that is usable, efficient and race competitive between about 12 and 18 mph. In most places where I have raced, a 110 and 150 will be the most competitive combination the highest percentage of the time.

I've heard S.F. Bay is often very windy, and a second set of reef points would also probably be useful.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2006 : 21:55:01

I like drifters.

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2006 : 07:35:17

If racing is your main concern then go with the 150 Genoa; or better yet a 155% Genoa. Most races start with an up-wind leg and that's where you can get a stratigic advantage right from the start that will set you up for the reaches and runs. A Spinnaker (even and asymetrical) will not go to weather and you need to point as well,or better,than the other boats. Also check if the racing rules allow the use of double head sails down wind (you said that you have an extra haylard) if they do then you can use your 110 and the 150 together and with practice you can get some suprisingly good results.

Edited by - Renzo on 11/06/2006 07:36:35

wmeinert@kconline.com
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
353 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2006 : 15:30:10

I agree with the 155 geny, as it usually takes at least three people to effectly work a shoot of any kind especially in racing a good Kevlar 155 is a great investment for both racing and crusing. I know crusers don't worry much about pointing, but when you have too, a good well made head sail will get you there even with out your main.

Edited by - on

bbriner
Captain

Members Avatar

349 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2006 : 15:32:10

Thx for the advice you all ... I decided that the Genoa was the best thing to do at this point, especially for the midwinter races. Winds are variable but in the range Steve indicated. I found one online at Atlantic Sail Traders. I'll let you know how it turns out! After the kitty is replenished I'll consider the spinnaker.

Edited by - on

Bruce Baker
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
402 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2006 : 08:53:11

First things first: You need a 155 genoa to go upwind. Downwind, the 155 genoa will do pretty well wing on wing with a whisker pole. You can be competitive in a non-spinnaker class race with a big genoa.

If you move up to the spinnaker class, you will also need a big genoa to go upwind. If you try to race spinnaker with your 110 genoa, the race will be over before you get to the top mark.

BTW, I'm curious how people feel about asymetrical spinnakers on C-25's. The only boats I've raced on with asymetrical spinnakers have been J-105's, and they have bowsprits. How does an asym work without a bowsprint? I'm rigging my boat with a tri-radial spinnaker and pole.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2006 : 19:14:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bruce Baker
 

BTW, I'm curious how people feel about asymetrical spinnakers on C-25's. The only boats I've raced on with asymetrical spinnakers have been J-105's, and they have bowsprits. How does an asym work without a bowsprint? I'm rigging my boat with a tri-radial spinnaker and pole.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I too have a tri-radial. There are a ton of 105's here in the Cleveland area and I just don't like the fact that they can't really dig down. Our boat wasn't designed for an asym - at least efficiently for racing when compared to a tri radial or cross cut symetrical. As you noted, there isn't a bow sprit, we are mega beamy relative to length and we are damn slow.

I was going to post earlier, but I took a look at 2 years worth of race results over 9 regattas or roughly 50 races. The asymetrical boats performed extremely well on triangles and gold cup courses. You don't see a lot of those these days, at least on the bigger water. . . most everything is a windward leeward. On the w/l courses there was a bigger gap and the asym boats were farther behind. My points - The asym isn't for every area. It is a great cruising chute and it really needs a boat designed for it....I know many guys here have them and are successful with them, but it wouldn't work in my program in this location.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2006 : 10:28:39

Since I bought my boat, I've added an assymmetrical and symmetrical spinnaker, each with their own Chute Scoop. I also have a custom made masthead crane, an ATN Tacker for the furler, and all the hardware/rigging installed...Who knows, maybe one of these days I might even fly one of these sails!

Edited by - on

bbriner
Captain

Members Avatar

349 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2006 : 08:42:09

Thanks for the advice guys .. I got the 150 (it was a little better than as advertised) and we raced yesterday with it with winds in the 5-10kt range. It was an 8.8nm triangular course. On the first upwind leg we just powered past 2 boats that we often struggle against - a Pearson Triton and an Islander 29 - and ended up beating them by 30-40 minutes (corrected). We came in 5th overall, 14 seconds out of 4th, but we were also 2 minutes late to the start. Without the 150 I think we'd still be out there!

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.