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Nothing to do with Catalina "Copyright"

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Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/20/2006 : 17:33:46

I need a little advice on the subject of Copyrights. I have a design company that I started back in 1999. I am the only person that works here and I have spent the last 5 years designing plans for 3 builders. I have one design that ranges from 2900 to 5400 square feet and have been very proud of my designs.

Last year I lost my father due to MS, I shut the door to my company and these 3 builders took my plans and had a registered architect redraw them. Do I stand on any grounds for a lawsuit? I told these builders I would except a flat fee for all of their plans and copyrights attached.

I worked for these builder as contract labor, I paid my own bills, ect. What are my rights here? I am about to contact a lawyer about damages, Frankly I have lost sleep over this, and it has effected my income.

On all of my plans I put the little copyright logo at the bottom of the sheet along with my name and year. I feel that my fight should be with the architect, he copied my work. I also had a statement saying that the plans could not be copied with out written permission from me.

Any help on the direction I should take would be tremendous right now.

Chris McKillip

C.S. McKillip
Ericson 33

Edited by - on

Dkn420
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2006 : 17:45:59

Your best bet is to scheudle a consultation with an attorney...they may give you a 1/2 hour without charge and let you know if you have a case or cause of action against anyone involved...it will also depend on the amount of your damages and what proof you have that you were damaged in deciding if you want to proceed legally...there are also bottom limits on the amount of damages you have to incur for the level of court you can file in, as an example $25,000.00 in order to file in a Superior Court...best of luck, it is a long grinding process...Dan #727

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2006 : 19:42:16

You could contact Big Nathan in Chicago and he could send some of da boyz over to have a little chit chat wit whosever is responsible.

But seriously, an attorney is your best bet.
A good friend of mine was screwed by MCI in a business deal he put together for them, won in court, and on appeal. I think he got about 2.3mil, which was equal to what he would have made in the deal. Go for it.
One of the reasons I got out of the construction industry a few years ago was because I was tired of dealing with scumbags.

By the way, that's one good looking house design you have there.

You have our support all the way

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2006 : 08:18:06

I would also make sure the attorney is one who specializes in copyright matters. Good luck and that is beautiful looking house.

Edited by - on

dblitz
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2006 : 08:24:24

In every industry, the scumbags are the rule not the exception (construction, medicine/pharmas, law, manufacturing, on and on)
The fact that your adversaries knew you "shut the door" probably gave them the impetus to "use" your designs.
I'm not a lawyer, but I would, at least, show continued activity in the industry and get the best lawyer that I can on a contingent basis. If you win, the lawyer will get 33% and you will have a nest egg. A good lawyer will probably sue (everybody) the builders and the architect. Maybe you won't need to actually go to court just have the lawyer send a few letters.
If you do decide to go to court you've gotta steel yourself to not letting it affect you.
If you're not sleeping now, think how much sleep you'll get leading up to and during trial.

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2006 : 09:11:18

Jim Gotwals 918-599-7088

http://www.gotwalslaw.com/

Edited by - on

dave holtgrave
Captain

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USA
427 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2006 : 10:21:24

as responses above.
copyrights are hard to prove.
i'm a registered architect in 14 states and every state has additional regulations regarding this.

one item i note is you use the word design in your title.
this could get you in trouble in several states.

i have dealt with this commercially and it is a long road and with the judicial system a stage act, he's my advise.

if you got the money, take them to court.
your chances are slim. but if the system on the day of judgement is in your favor, you may get somrthing.

here's the kicker. because you are not a registered architect your copyright does not hold much in a court of law. it would have been best to actually recorded a specific copyright.

my past dealing say it would costs you $12-15000 to go to court.
probably around 2 to 2 1/2 years to a hearing.

i know it sucks, i have people taking my drawings elsewhere and redoing.
it's part of the profession.

dave holtgrave
5722 sk/tr
hard and dry near carlyle lake in southern illinois

Edited by - on

dontluff
Deckhand

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Canada
22 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2006 : 12:28:43

I'm not a lawyer but having been a consultant for various companies delivering my own ideas and designs, I do know that your rights will be affected by the terms of your engagement. Many agreements will state that the customer retains rights to the work produced since that is what they are buying, unless it is stated to the contrary.

I feel for your situation. Many years ago, a sailing friend and I designed a 30ft IOR half ton boat. We had each individually designed other boats as a hobby, but wanted to get serious. We approached a naval architect and a director we knew on the personal level who worked for a major builder and asked for their $0.02 on the design and whether they thought there was a market for a production version.

We had written copyight notices on all the drawings and had built scale models.

The answer: "a nice looking boat for a one-off but we don't think there will be much appetite for a production series". Coincidentally, a year later there was an almost identical boat in production and they sold many of them. The sail plan, overall dimensions, hull shape, keel & rudder configuration were the splitting image of our design. On close inspection of the boat, a couple of minor details were changed in the coachroof and cockpit layout. Not enough in our opinion for it to be their unique design or their concept.

Given the type-forming nature of the IOR rule it was claimed that many naval architects would have drawn "similar" results and hence, there was no proof that our design was the one used.
It was a hard lesson in life and the only reward was an inner reassurance that we designed a good boat !!

As others have said, seek some legal opinions on your situaton and I wish you well.

Edited by - on

Gambit
Navigator

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USA
160 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2006 : 17:30:52

I can't argue with any of the above advice but can add to it. As a CPA with my company I review many contracts. You mention your company but later that "you" worked for them as contract labor. It may go back to whom the contract was with and the wording of the contract (if there was one). They may have indicated that your product was work-for-hire and that they would own it. I quick read through of that documentation would give an indication if you have a claim. When you see your lawyer be sure to have all documentation handy and organized, that will help the lawyer assess your claim.

Sorry about your father, good luck on this case. In any event, let the pro check it out so you can stop losing sleep over it.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2006 : 19:29:50

Kinda submissive, but you also have to weigh the cost to your mental and physical health in dealing with the issue. The physical cost can be huge!

If you need the money, then you probably cannot afford the gamble of hiring an attorney, if you don't need the money then it's probaly not worth it. if you couldn't care less, then you'll probably be a whole lot healthier.

Their Karma will bend against them!

paul

Edited by - on

Downbucket
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2006 : 20:52:05

Hi Chris:

I am a lawyer and the advice you're getting from this forum is worth exactly what you're paying for it. Go see a lawyer.

Not trying to be unkind, but I don't think this discussion belongs here.

Good luck.

Will

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2006 : 21:05:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Downbucket
 ...Not trying to be unkind, but I don't think this discussion belongs here.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Sorry Will, but I can attest that now and then this community becomes a safe place to float an emotional issue--I plead guilty. Your advice is well-taken, but some others' will help too, such as the advice to read the contract for who owns the work-product, and to take that along to the attorney. It's all good... And we'll get back to sailing shortly.

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2006 : 11:26:55

Just a coupe of notes on the subject on hand.

1. I know that this really doesnt need to be on this forum, but I feel that the forum and its membership has good advice to give, even if it doesn't pertain to sailing.

2. If I had the extra money laying around I would have done something about it already.

3. A really good friend of mine that has passed on has given me some of the best advice. He stated "Why get in a pissing contest with someone that can piss allot farther and longer than I can. Meaning that these builders that I have worked with in the past have an almost endless supply of money, and could care less about the sleep loss, or for that matter how I feel about this.

4. The thing that really starts to piss me off is the fact that a registered architect copied my work, and is selling it. He is benefiting on my designs.

5. I was looking for a little advice on the way I should handle the matter at hand, and I thank you all for the kind words of wisdom that you have given me. Its been over a year since this has happened, and it just made me smarter about how I need to do business.

OK, back to sailing

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