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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Water in bilge

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Orion
Deckhand

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2 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/21/2006 : 13:47:51

Hi all,
I am in search of a C25 and have looked at quite a few. I have found in almost all of them (and in C27s) that there is water in the bilge. Often the nuts on the keel bolts are also rusted pretty good. Is this a common occurence? And where does the water come from? Is it an indication of the infamous Catalina Smile? Is it something that should warn me away from a boat? Thanks!

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2006 : 14:12:50

Water in the bilge is very common. It is usually accumulation of minor leakage around windows, the hull/deck joint, deck fittings, and condensation rather than leakage coming from below the waterline. (although the latter can't be ruled out without some further investigation).

If the keel bolts/nuts are severely rusted it can be problem. Minor rust can be cleaned off and and the bolts treated to prevent further deterioration.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2006 : 14:16:47

It can be a common occurrence on some of the older models that haven’t been maintained and even on some that have been kept up. Your water source is generally going to be 1 of three things. Deck Hardware not being properly sealed is, windows that have not been recaulked (especially on early models) and Rub Rails that have not been caulked – again early models.

I have a swing Keel, but can tell you that the Catalina Smile isn’t just specific to Catalinas. Keel bolts can always be replaced, the bigger question in my mind are how long have they been like that, and how long has the water been there. In general those things would be an indication of the DPO’s maintenance ethic.

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2006 : 15:54:10

What's the Catalina Smile? I'm assuming fiberglass cracks around where the keel attaches to the hull?

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2006 : 17:37:26

That's exactly right, John. Its referred to as the Catalina Smile because it happens at the forward part of the fin keel where it butts to the fiberglass stub.

This [url="http://www.blumhorst.com/catalina27/images/keel_factory_drawings/keel_crack_repair._from_catalina.gif"]drawing[/url] illustrates the crack and the fix.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2006 : 17:49:32

Catalina has no claim to the Smile. You will find it to some degree all around you, granted lots of boats do not have keel/stub separation but lots do.

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2006 : 18:06:08

Thanks, Don.

Interesting drawing. If you've noticed my "More Questions" thread, I'm looking at a boat that has a small fiberglass issue (sounds dull on percussion but meter reads dry) "About a foot forward of the aft edge of the keel". I noticed that this was a C-27 drawing. I wonder if the 25 has a similar keel profile within a longer housing.

Edited by - John Russell on 12/21/2006 18:24:45

Steve Siefken
1st Mate

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USA
81 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2006 : 23:01:51

That is interesting. I have only had my boat a year and a half, but despite a few minor leaks (which I fixed) the bilge continues to be completely dry.

Guess I better knock on wood...

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Orion
Deckhand

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2 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2006 : 07:24:01

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

Concerning the Catalina Smile, when looking at the keel, should you be able to see a seam between stub and keel or, in perfect condition, would the seam be unnoticeable?

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2006 : 10:04:12

The smile is more likely on the older (pre-84?) fin keels, which are naked cast iron--primed and painted. Later, Catatlina went to a lead keel encased in fiberglass that was more integral to the hull. (Mine never smiled.) The primary purpose of the fairly thick fiberglass was probably to make the shape as well as weight the same as the original keel, since lead is denser. At the same time, they switched from mild steel keel bolts and nuts to stainless.

Another common source of water in the bilge (from my experience) is the cockpit scuppers or transom drains leaking around their edges. They handle a fair quantity of water, and a leak has an especially direct run under the quaterberth to the bilge. A chalk line across it's suspected path can validate that suspicion--the water will wash the chalk away.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/22/2006 10:06:35

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2006 : 10:56:59

Does anybody know what hull number made the transition from iron to lead? I'm looking at an '83 that has shiny stainless bolts and a keel that is encased in glass. I, like Dave, thought the switch was made in '84 but, now I wonder. Guess I'll take a magnet the next time I look at the boat.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2006 : 13:13:01

I was probably wrong--maybe pre-'83. If you see SS bolts, it's lead in glass. Rusty bolts=iron keel. Out of the water, most iron keels are weeping at least a little rust here and there--nothing wrong with that--there's enough iron for several of our lifetimes. Also, the iron keel isn't as prone to getting smooshed--I saw one lead/glass keel that'd hit a rock or something--it needed a lot of fiberglass on the forward lower corner. (Tweren't mine.)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/22/2006 13:16:49

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.