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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Trimming the head sail

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CaptRon400
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/27/2006 : 08:50:45

I've noticed one unusual "problem" with the 250 regarding the location of lifelines and shrouds and where the head sail and sheets want to be - they interfere, at least on my furling 110. Rigging the sheets outside of the shrouds will cause the sheet to rub the shround when close hauled. Inside would cause the opposite effect - rubbing when off the wind. Having to re-route the sheet(s) when trimming is not a good idea. And finally - the foot of the sail will always bend over the lifeline when off the wind. Is this the way it's supposed to be?

My temporary solution was to install oversize plastic covers on the shrouds to eliminate any chafing, but I'm living with the bent foot on the lifline. I see a fix for that too, but removing lifelines is not a good one.

One other annoying thing on the head sail - the angle of the furling line is not 90 degrees to the drum, causing it to spool more on the top with potential jambing problems. I'm tempted to add another feed to correct this.

CaptRon400
C250 WK #688 "Running Free"
Telstar 28 #359 "Tri-Power"
2002 SeaDoo Challenger 2000 Merc V6
C400 #74 "Good Vibrations" (sold)

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2006 : 09:28:09

I have a 1985 C25 and on the lifelines on it are different. They angle down toward the bow pulpit and connect about 1 inch above the deck from the first stanchion. I have seen pictures of the 250's and also wondered about this as well.

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Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2006 : 21:32:52

Ron, does your 250 have a furling line fairlead up by the anchor locker like this?

Granted, the furling line is still at aslight angle to the drum. However, when I unfurl the jib, I generally just let the furling line go (I have a stopper knot on the end). The line randomly spools onto the drum but it ends up fairly even.

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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2006 : 07:12:08

Dave & Deb, your picture shows the more annoying issue!
When the jib is furled, the furling line is normally under tension, and that makes opening the anchor locker really a pain! My solution is to furl the sail, go forward to take care of the anchor, put a bungee around the furled sail and then have the admiral slacken off the furler line. When anchoring is complete, we tighten up on the furler line again not wanting to leave the jib just under the protection of the bungee (been there done that, won't do it again).

paul.

Taking another look at the pic, I wonder if wrapping the furler line around the durm in the other direction would cure the locker hatch issue?

BTW. Nicely cheesed down lines!

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bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2006 : 07:42:30

I also have the fairlead where shown in the photograph, but my furler
line comes off the drum on the port side. Never had a problem with the anchor locker opening either. Also, never had a problem with the line not spooling back in on the drum either[CDI Furler].

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britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2006 : 08:32:39

Thanks Bear, I'll respool my furler drum clockwise next mast raising.

Paul.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2006 : 10:08:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 Thanks Bear, I'll respool my furler drum clockwise next mast raising.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Paul,

Keep in mind that if you have a sewn on sail cover for the headsail, you can't change the direction the drum furls.

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2006 : 10:14:27

The safest way to secure a furled headsail is wrap a halyard around it several times. Doing so kills two birds with a single shot... as it protects the sail from an unexpected high wind and it clears the halyard from the mast where it won't slap.

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Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2006 : 10:15:35

I was just going to say that, Don. I have a sunband on the port side of my jib, so I have to furl clockwise. I'm stuck with the furling line entering the drum on the starboard side.

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welshoff
Captain

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USA
253 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2006 : 10:18:24

My furler spools off the port side of the boat. The furler line routes simalar to Deb & Dave's photo (fairled on deck). The line still fouls the anchor locker lid a little bit. I usually have to reach down and push the furler line to port as I raise/lower anchor locker lid.

Note: I spool mine on the port side so the sail furls around the drum putting the UV protectant on the sail to the outside of the furled sail. I thought the protectant was only on one side of the sail (factory Catalina head sail), applied to the foot and leach of the sail? Is the UV protectant only on one side of the sail?

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2006 : 10:28:59

Ron... regarding the jib sheeting routing. The 250 was initially designed as a water ballast trailerable with a 110 offering for headsail and shrouds were located just above the rub rail. That design had no sheeting problems.

As the 250 evolved with a wing keel addition, shrouds were moved inboard so that a larger headsail could be fitted. It's never been a great setup with the cabin top tracks. Close hauled, the sheets work better inside the shrouds and off wind, better outside. Catalina has adjusted the tracks out a bit to bring some relief.

A few owners run double sheets (one in one out), it might be worth a try.

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CaptRon400
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2006 : 11:14:42

Bubba, et. al -

My 2003 wk 250 (with a 110) has it's forward fairlead in the same location. The angle between the furling line and headstay / drum is significantly less than 90 degrees - probably in the 70 degree range. This causes the line to walk up on the drum and spool near the top, and to occasionally jamb because of its wrapped size in relation to the cover on the drum assembly. It's not critical - just give it a good tug and it will usually free up. If I went to a larger sail (135 or 150) it would be a serious problem because of the extra turns on the drum. I will eventually wind up installing another fairlead to get the angle closer to 90.

You should always have some tension on the other line when rolling the genoa in or out (never just let it go), and wrap the sheet around the sail 2 or 3 times when rolling it in.

I'll live with the sheet rubbing on the shrouds for now. As I mentioned previously, the oversize plastic wire covers act like a turning block and protect and help glide the sheet during a tack. I've been doing this sucessfully for years on my 400 with oversized head sails where the sail actually rolls around the shrouds (the spreaders have wheels mounted above and below). I just about always backwind the genoa during a tack to get the wind to help turn the 22,000 pounds. Makes a major difference - I've out-tacked some lightweights doing this.

The foot hitting the lifeline when off the wind is something else, and I don't see a workable solution. Attaching the lifeline to the base of the pulpit would reduce its effectiveness and re-cutting the sail would reduce its performance (as if a 110 had any).

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Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2006 : 16:57:52

Wil,
My sunband is only on one side. I had the original replaced when I had the sail cleaned and repaired a couple of years ago.

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bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2006 : 18:29:29

When I had a new 110 furler made two years ago Doyle sails wanted to know which side the furling line came off the spool. I suspect they wanted this for proper placement of the sunbrella. My UV is only on one side.

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2006 : 06:44:09

The foot - life line conflict can be eased slightly by hauling the sail fully aloft to the maximum the halyard will allow. This is easy to do if the tack is setup with a small pigtail line for roving through the furler rather than a fixed pigtail length at the tack.

I've seen some setups use a fixed pig tail at the tack but the halyard line is very difficult to tension the luff. Much better to haul the jib then adjust the tack with a small line rove several times between the tack and the furler.

In heavy conditions the jib can be run 4-6 inches lower to bring power closer to the deck.

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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2007 : 16:17:15

Well, we re-rolled the furler line clockwise this weekend, it definitely does make opening the anchor locker cover easier, but still need to push the tensioned line out of the way, but at least it is more manageable.

Thanks for the tip.

Paul

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CaptRon400
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2007 : 11:58:17

I've had the boat out about a half dozen times now and I'm reasonably happy with how it sails. 15 knots at any wind angle is no real problem and it seems to like it. I'm pretty sure it's seen more but with out a wind gauge it's only speculation. Speed is approaching 6 knots if it's anywhere near the beam. The plastic rollers on the shrouds are keeping the sheets from self descruction and I'm learning to live with the 110 folded over the life lines. Even with the bow a little too high in the air it still takes chop and wakes fairly well.

I think I was expecting this. The 320, 400 and 250 have similar lines and all three have similar performance charactistics.

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