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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Hunter at Miami Strictly sail

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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/17/2007 : 22:39:05

Back from Strictly sail miami.
Pretty good display by Catalina, really like the C34 mkII. The most interesting thing for us was the Hunter 25. Wow! It sells the C250!

Must admit we were suprised at the difference. The galley isn't. It's a cubboard with a camping stove sat atop of it. This was the first time Peggy had been on the Hunter and she was amazed. The wing keel(?) version obviously has more headroom than our C250WB, but that is about the limit of their advantages.

Now the bigger hunters are very nice, but they just show how the hunter 25 is the black sheep of the family. Our impression of the C250WB was elevated because of the comparison.

Relly nice to see Jerry Butz from boaters exchange. His boat (c250WB 2007) has a really nice traveller installed across but aft of the cabin entrance. (It is mounted onto starboard plates on each seat and a block is mounted beneath it and the original sheet block mounting widget). He has about a 4' track installed with a double purchase setup, looks really good and he likes its performance.

The boat is from the new production center in Largo Florida, there are a few very minor but nice touch upbrades...
The drain holes for the gunwhale pockets are countersunk, giving them a nicer apperance.
There is a teak edge covering the fwd lip of the aft berth, it's just cosmetic but looks good.
The cabin lights above the table are a new style, enclosed but apparently not LEDs.
Not sure what this means, but the screws that secure the companionway keepers were painted white to match the material, (hope it does not mean they are not stainless!)
The sliding hatch top is the same as our 2005 model, with the inset smoked plastic insert, but the wooden rails on the inside of pop top are machined to look like handholds, again, nice cosmetic touch, but don't see any pratcial value to it.
Jerry had added a couple of sheet bags to the backside of the cabin in the cockpit, these are only attached by two studs compared to the 4 studs on our 2005 model. His bags were made of a type of grey mesh material (you could see the contents) rather than the more traditional solid naugahyde type material.

Jerry has followed most of the projects we have installed on JD and fequently refers to us when discussing the trailerability of the boat.

My general review of the Florida production models was positive. Now if someone from Catalina would like to lend me a CatalinaMorgan 440 or 470 for a couple of weeks this summer, we would be happy to critique it for them.

paul

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

Edited by - on

dave holtgrave
Captain

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USA
427 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2007 : 08:08:56

paul
catalina has a production plant in largo fl.
while your in the south, you could run by there and see the availablity of the morgans you're talking about.

if you get the trial boat you want. check and see if an outislander, say in the mid 40's is available for me.

i will provide your provisions and fuel if you can pull this deal off.

i also will throw in two steps sons in their early twenties for free.
they are good kids and great workhorses.

i throw in the wife except she is irish and said i have to keep here.

dave holtgrave
5722 sk/tr
hard and dry near carlyle lake in cold but sunny southern illinois.

go mark martin!!!!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2007 : 11:51:07

My theory on Hunter's B&R rig is that with no backstay, they don't have to worry about the hull buckling from the tension at both ends (like one of the Americas Cup boats did a few years back). At one boat show, a Catalina dealer showed me how a Hunter 260 hull in the next booth could be "oil canned" with a gentle push of my hand. Perhaps they feel that flexibility will prevent holing...

They're such fun to pick on!

Edited by - on

Mike Chrisman
Deckhand

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USA
8 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2007 : 14:37:49

Far away from the sun of Miami, I was at my dealer in Cincinnati on Friday. He has a Hunter 25, Catalina 250 WB and a Catalina 250 WK (mine!!, just in from the factory) on the lot. Due to the ice/snow here, I was not able to get much of a peek into the 250 WK, but I have done a lot of looking and research comparing both Catalina and Hunter. The Hunter makes the Catalinas look like an excellent value. I may be prejudiced at this point, but the interior of the Hunter seems less spacious and less user friendly compared to either Catalina. Fit and finish of the Catalina is much better as well. I have not sailed a Hunter 25, but I don't see how it will point as well as either the WK or WB with centerboard. To me, the backstay is a safety issue that seals the deal.

It was interesting to be able to see all three boats on trailers next to one another. It helped confirm to me that I made the right choice.

Only 71 more days until the lake opens -not that I'm counting!

Edited by - on

britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2007 : 16:39:17

Welcome Mike (a bit late I know)
The major difference we noticed betwixt the C250 and the H25 is the interior, it is simply simple, nothing added to make it welcoming or particularly comfortable.

Then we looked at the winches... they smell cheap, look cheap, taste cheap, and are probably cheap. But probably all they need to handle the sails.

Paul

Edited by - on

mhartong
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2007 : 18:09:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mike Chrisman
 but the interior of the Hunter seems less spacious and less user friendly compared to either Catalina. Fit and finish of the Catalina is much better as well.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I agree. There is no comparison between the fit and finish. The Hunter really comes a cross as a cheap knockoff of the Catalina!

Edited by - on

MarkC250
Deckhand

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USA
3 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2007 : 16:01:41

I went to the Miami Strictly Sail boat show this last weekend and agree that the Hunter 25 looked cheap by comparison to the Catalina 250. I ended up buying a Catalina 250 from Jerry Butz. I can hardly wait to start sailing!

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2007 : 17:08:32

Awesome Mark!!! Welcome to the Forum.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2007 : 17:09:15

Welcome Mark! Be sure to join the association and stay close to the forums--it's just about the best sailing community on the web!

Edited by - on

Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2007 : 18:22:09

Ahoy Mark and Welcome! Wish I could have made it down there. Just too much work going on right now. I'm sure you will love your C-250 as much as everyone one else here. It is a "big" little boat. Is yours a wing keel or a water ballast?
And also Welcome to you Mike in Brookville Lk!

Edited by - on

Jonathan Cuff
Navigator

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Cayman Island
173 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2007 : 19:59:26

We too were at Strictly Sail in Miami. It was a bit chilly for sure when we were there on Friday. The Catalina's really do impress compared to the Hunter's. We had our Service Manager with us and he got his head underneath just about every hole and crevice and was much impressed with the finish on the Catalina's. The Hunter 25 is pretty poor all round but I did like the mainsheet being mounted to the top of the bimini/roll bar on one model (can't remember which one!).

The C250 that was there was the WB version and it did strike me that the cabin seemed much smaller than the WK version due to the height difference. I couldn't sit up straight in the cabin. Still it was good to see what's on offer and I agree that the small improvements they have made are nice.

Cheers Jonathan

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2007 : 20:45:12

Anybody out there familiar with Coleman canoes? especially compared with whitewater canoes by Mad River, or Whitesell.

That's the comparison between Hunter and Macgregor vs a Catalina

How about Yugos?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2007 : 22:03:49

I'll be at the show in Boston Wednesday comparing the Yugos to the Hondas to the Beemers to the Maseratis, so to speak. (Some Easterns will be there, too.)

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2007 : 22:31:48

Mark, a huge welcome to the florida tribe!

You'll find that Jerry is a great dealer, and we look forward to seeing you on the water later this year. You'll get your boat number in a few weeks.
Which model (WB or WK)?

If you haven't yet hung around here, then start! They are a great team to have on your side with answers to every question even those you haven't had yet.

You might be sailing your new boat before some of these chilly guys get theirs off the hard

Keep an eye out for Jesse Camp, he owns a C25 SK in Merrit island not that far from you.

Paul.

Edited by - on

MarkC250
Deckhand

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USA
3 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2007 : 06:52:26

Hi Tom, Dave, Ben, and Paul,

Thank you for the warm welcome. I am going to test sail both the WB and WK models on March 10th to decide which model will be better for my sailing situation. My father-in-law has graciously offered to let me tie up my boat to his dock on the Indian River on Merritt Island. I don't know if I would ever want to trailer the boat to different locations. Does anyone have any opinions about the pros and cons of either model? Tentatively, I chose a tiller rather than a wheel, any thoughts on that? Options? Thanks to all the forum members is advance for their thoughts.

Mark

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2007 : 07:03:23

Mark, that last item will get the guru's going

Tiller vs Wheel issue. Jerry certainly seems to favor the tiller, not suprising as a wheel version is basically a tiller model with the wheel mod.
If going for the wheel, I would suggest getting Arlyn's mod kit installed. We hope to do that later this (financial) year (heads up Arlyn!)

We're sailing JD on Biscayne bay this weekend, arriving Saturday Morning at Black Point Marina, if you want to take the long journey down here to see the launch process. (And check out the mods we have done todate.) I know of at least one other C250 owner up there, but Jerry knows practically all of them.

Paul.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2007 : 11:19:36

Tiller. (Wheels are for stinkpots and cars.)

WK vs. WB... So much has been written in this forum I won't even start, although I researched it pretty thoroughly some years back. Use the Search function or just scan the 250 forum pages. But if you want to start your own discussion, I suggest creating a new topic on the 250 forum.

Enjoy your quest, and your boat!

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2007 : 12:50:43

At the very start of our search for a boat (our first), we looked at the Hunter 25. That was late 2005 and we took another look in early 2006. We now sail our 1985 C25 traditional interior. If there is supposed to be 20+ years of improvement between 1985 and now, the Hunter interior doesn't reflect it. Also we went to the boat show locally a couple of weeks ago..we both (the Admiral and I) fell in love with the C270. Still the 25 we have is just what we need for now. I wouldn't have taken the 2006 H25 over the 1985 standard rig if given a choice.

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2007 : 13:38:19

Wheel.

Have you ever seen Johnny Depp with a tiller?? Enough said.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2007 : 14:13:05

A wheel is a device intended to provide a steering station in a location where a tiller cannot be practicably incorporated, most often it would simply be impractical to do it but sometimes the ergonomics of a cockpit provide the rational. I do not think any Catalina 25 can justify one however the wider cockpit of a 250 can support one with the intent of changing the flow/distribution of crew.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2007 : 14:40:54

As soon as someone puts acres of sailcloth, yardarms and a gun deck on a 25 foot sloop it can have a wheel. Till

then it's a tiller for me! Aaaaarrrgh!

Besides, don't you guys with wheels have to have a back up tiller on board?

While I'm here, I might as well enter the WB/WK fracas. It seems to me the only reason to get a WB is if you intend to trailer a lot. This, of course is not based on any experience whatever; just other discussions on this forum that lead me to think that is the only real advantage for the WB. The only disadvantage seems to be in the headroom issue. More headroom in the WK version. The ability to go into the wind seems to be somewhat but not a significant issue with the WB having a slight advantage. Have I mis-read the forum entries?

I also wonder about the ballast system being one more system to worry about maintaining. But, haven't read anything much about that. Have read a little about the ballast tank leaking but those seem to be rare, very self-limited and easily repaired issues with fittings and valves and such.

Edited by - John Russell on 02/20/2007 15:53:33

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2007 : 17:49:23

In addition to making the captain appear more like a pirate, the wheel steering has another, more practical, advantage. That is the ability to add a pedestal guard and to hang all sorts of things off of it. I have purchased a pedestal guard and will mount to it a folding cockpit table, four cup holder unit, hand-held VHF and a GPS Chartplotter. We can argue the benefits of the table and cupholders (they please the Admiral) but it seems to me that having the GPS Plotter and the compass right in front of you is preferable to having them on the bulkhead or even in the cabin.

As someone mentioned earlier the wheel steering C250s have a tiller backup. That is exactly what a tiller should be, backup.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 02/20/2007 22:32:59

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2007 : 18:13:03

Cupholders and gundecks

I'll just have to add to my spring project list

Getting drunk and blowing away jetskis.......yeah, that's the ticket

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britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2007 : 07:15:45

Mark, you must be just days away from your test sail now.. ohhh the eager anticipation streams!

One thought did occur to me and that is regarding the jib size. In case I didn't make it obvious, were I to be in your shoes right now, I would definitely go with the 135% jib over the 110% jib, you can always furl it.

Paul

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