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Jonathan Cuff
Navigator

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Cayman Island
173 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/19/2007 : 09:14:30

Hi guys

I'm in the process of 'upgrading' from a C-25 to a C-250. The C-250 is a 1998 wing keel that went through Ivan, but has a new mast and standing rigging. I have a few questions!

1) Does anyone know if the mast was offered in different heights as I'm getting different stories from different sources?

2) In 10-15 know winds (the average for Cayman) what fore sail is better a 110 or 135? On my C-25 I have a 150, which works great, but I have heard the C-250 is main driven and more tender.

3) Has anyone installed a proper marine head instead of the porta potti. (We hate porta potti's!). My C-25 has a salt water intake for flushing.

We're upgrading for a couple of reasons. I like the open nature of the cabin and feel we could use the space better. Also the much bigger cockpit, as well as easier access to the water, and the hull mounted outboard arrangement.

If anyone has any advice on the C-250 I would be really grateful as I'm very new to it!

Many thanks as always.

Cheers Jonathan

Pie Sees 2 C25 #5686 1987 SR/WK

Edited by - on

dwadle
1st Mate

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29 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2007 : 09:33:55

Have you bought the 250 yet? I have mine for sale in miami.

http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/8/7/84605287.htm

DESCRIPTION
2005 CATALINA 25', 250k wing keel, bimini, gps, vhf, compas, 9.8hp, sleeps 4, cushion pkg, canvas pkg, roller furling, enclosed head, enclosed poptop, stove, davidwadle@hotmail.com, reduced $27,500, 305-989-0063.

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2007 : 18:21:30

Jonathan,

Whew, "upgrading" to a C250...you may get mail from C25 owners. ;-)

I own a C250WK, but I am a one year newbie. Here are some preliminary answers for you. Some of your questions will likely get you lots of opinions.

1.) There is a standard rig and tall rig. The tall rig is no longer sold, but there a number of them out there. I don't know the height of the tall rig mast.

2.) I used to sail in St. Helens, Oregon, where the average wind conditions are exactly what you describe. I used a roller furled 135. Over 10 knots or so, I would reef the main, but did not pull in the jib very often. Over 15, you would want to furl part of the jib, or if not using a furler, change to the smaller headsail. If you truly always have over 10 knots, and don't want to use a furler, I think a 110 would be the best choice for a single sail.

3.) Folks have installed marine heads in C250s, and they are also availalbe from the factory that way. Search the C250 section of the web site for "head", and I think you will find lots of discussion.

Edited by - on

Jonathan Cuff
Navigator

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Cayman Island
173 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2007 : 19:50:06

Thank you for the information Kevin. I am very reluctant to change from a C25 to a C250 but I can replace a 1987 boat with a 1998 one for little cost so it seems to make sense. We swim a lot and the easier access to the water as well as the larger cockpit should be a big improvement. I really do love my C25, but fortunately I am going to be able to have a 'test' sail in the C250 before committing. It's been a long time since I've been on one.

Cheers Jonathan

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2007 : 23:00:05

I love mine.

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2007 : 05:55:54

Hi Jonathan

I will be in the Cayman's on Wednesday and expect a ride on your new boat! I own a 2003 250WK and absolutely love the room inside and the expansive cockpit. I've had 8 people in the cockpit - it's a comfortable boat. I have a 135 furler. I've found that furling the jib too much in higher winds is not as advantages as reefing the main. The boat tends to want to go sideways if you shorten up on the jib and leave the main out. I would look for a 135. That said, I'm not sure that on a 1998 that the tracks on your cabin top for your sheet pulleys are positioned for a larger jib. I seem to remember that early models were located differently, but maybe that is only on the water ballast. Others here my have a better handle on this - I may be all wrong here.

You may also want to address the issue about the weight distribution of the 250. Many of us have added weight to the bow (200-300 lb) to level out the water line. She sails and points much better when you get her level. All 250 have had this issue. I corrected mine by adding 2 batteries in the front rather than 1 in the aft end.

Now, how bout that ride?

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2007 : 06:00:50

Almost forgot: I actually took out my marine head and had to add a porta potty. We don't have a pump out station on my lake. Hmmm, don't ask, I'm not hauling a head onto my cruiseship to the Caribbean just so you can have a free toilet!

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2007 : 06:42:02

Johnathon, re the Genoa/jib size: Our experience is to definitely get a furler and the 135% and not the 110%. It gives you greater variation in sail plans. If you setup the single line reefing then reefing the main is practically as easy as furling the jib. But the most important issue (at least on our 2005 model) is the expected improvement of balance. When winds are above 15kts we're more comfortable with a single reef in the main and full 110% jib, below that we let out the reef but the weather helm increases significantly, hence the wish for a 135% jib, it would balance better with the full main.

Does anyone know if the main on the oder 250s is different from the 2005+ model?

Paul

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2007 : 08:31:43

I think the jib tracks were lengthened on the '97 model. Around 2005-2006 they were moved outward a bit.

Edited by - on

Jonathan Cuff
Navigator

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Cayman Island
173 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2007 : 09:11:38

Thank you again for all the info. I work for a marina down in Cayman www.harbourhousemarina.com and I think we have inadvertently ordered a tall rig instead of the original standard rig which was on this boat. I was told by the Catalina guys at strictly sail that only the one mast is made now. In the manual we found on board it quotes 29' and 32' as the lengths. I'm not sure which one is now the standard one.

We're also going to have to get a new fore stay as the Harken furler won't fit over the lower swage in the current one. We just have a few issues to sort out before the test sail!

Turk - Tomorrow is a day off in Grand Cayman so you should find lots going on. There is a massive Mardi Gras party going on at Kaibo yacht Club if you like that sort of thing.

Cheers Jonathan

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2007 : 15:57:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jonathan Cuff
 

Turk - Tomorrow is a day off in Grand Cayman so you should find lots going on. There is a massive Mardi Gras party going on at Kaibo yacht Club if you like that sort of thing.

Cheers Jonathan
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ahhhh . but I'll be there next week!

Edited by - on

Jonathan Cuff
Navigator

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Cayman Island
173 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2007 : 09:31:01

Well, we've made a bit of a cock up and ended up with a tall rig to replace what was a standard rig. So now we have sails for a standard rig and a tall rig we don't need.

I guess we'll order a complete standard rig from CD as I believe this is what is currently on the boats. We have asked for quotes on new sails. I'm not sure how the TR compares to the SR. I know on the C25 the TR lowers the boom and makes a bimini tricky.

To be honest in 10-15 know trade winds with a 135 I'm not sure if you would need a TR.

The head compartment wood is rotten at the bottom (the bit as you come down the companionway before the head door. Does anyone know what type and thickness of wood that is?

Once again many thanks for all the help. No-one needs a complete standard rig do they?!!

Cheers Jonathan

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2007 : 10:32:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jonathan Cuff
 Well, we've made a bit of a cock up and ended up with a tall rig to replace what was a standard rig. So now we have sails for a standard rig and a tall rig we don't need.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If the mast extrusions are the same except for the length, cut it to the standard height then shorten the standing rigging or see if they can be exchanged for the SR's.

Edited by - dlucier on 02/22/2007 10:33:41

Jonathan Cuff
Navigator

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Cayman Island
173 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2007 : 13:10:33

We just called Catalina who referred us onto Charleston Spars for the mast. They quoted $2,622 which is a lot more than we paid the the tall rig from CD. We've got to wait for someone to get back from vacation next week before CD can confirm if they can get one.

Cheers Jonathan

Edited by - on

Jonathan Cuff
Navigator

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Cayman Island
173 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2007 : 06:56:36

Well we had some good news late yesterday. We heard from Swenson sails (who we called to get a quote for sails for the tall rig) that Catalina do a conversion plan to change the TR into a SR. I phoned Catalina and they faxed it through right away. Apparantly the C-250 was made with two types of rig until about 1999 and then the TR was dropped. I was told the boat is a bit more tender than the C-25 and the tall rig was a bit much.

So we're now going to chop the mast and see where we go from there!

Cheers Jonathan

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2007 : 11:53:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jonathan Cuff
 So we're now going to chop the mast and see where we go from there! <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So the mast extrusions are the same for both TRs and SRs?

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2007 : 12:53:25

The question of C25 mast extrusions came up a few years ago, and I compared tall rigs and standard rigs, and found they have the same outside dimensions. I wasn't able to compare the thickness of the masts' walls.

At the same time, I also compared them with masts on tall rig and standard rig C27s, because there was a lot of discussion that tall rig C25s had the same cross-section as C27 masts, and I found that the C27 masts are much bigger and beefier than either the tall or standard rig C25 mast.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2007 : 14:42:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 The question of C25 mast extrusions came up a few years ago, and I compared tall rigs and standard rigs, and found they have the same outside dimensions....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Steve,

I thought the tall extrusion is 6" x 3-1/4" and the standard 4-1/2" x 3"...no?

Edited by - on

Jonathan Cuff
Navigator

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Cayman Island
173 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2007 : 15:32:12

I was told yesterday by Catalina that the extrusion is the same, the only difference is the length 32ft for the TR and 29ft for the SR. The instructions just tell us to cut 3 ft from the top of the mast and resite the masthead unit with associated hardware. The spreaders must be the same height from the deck on both models.

Cheers Jonathan

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2007 : 17:14:00

Jonathan
(I assume were talking about a 250 mast here)
Before you cut the mast you may want to check those numbers with Catalina again. I show some different numbers. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I compared rigging specs between the 250TR and 250SR and here's what I came up with.

TR - Mast length - 31'
Upper shrouds - 3/16, 29'-11 3/4" long
Lower shrouds - 3/16, 15'-4 3/4" long

SR - Mast length - 28'
Upper shrouds - 5/32, 27'-7 5/8" long
Lower shrouds - 5/32, 13'-5 3/4" long

Edited by - Tom Potter on 02/23/2007 17:15:25

Jonathan Cuff
Navigator

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Cayman Island
173 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2007 : 20:20:32

Thanks Tom. We'll double check before getting the saw out! At least with both measurements it's still cutting three feet off.

Cheers Jonathan

Edited by - on

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
855 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2007 : 23:46:46

Jonathan,
I can measure my C250 Water Ballast Mast if you want.
Looking at Tom's numbers it looks like the spreaders are in different locations.
It looks like you will need to cut some off the top and bottom.

Russ (#793)

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2007 : 08:50:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 The question of C25 mast extrusions came up a few years ago, and I compared tall rigs and standard rigs, and found they have the same outside dimensions....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Steve,

I thought the tall extrusion is 6" x 3-1/4" and the standard 4-1/2" x 3"...no?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Steve and Don,
Just by doing a visual comparison of 250's from the dock the TR mast does look to me to have a larger diameter than the SR mast. Maybe its the C25 TR v SR that has the same diameter.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2007 : 09:40:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tompotter
 Steve and Don,
Just by doing a visual comparison of 250's from the dock the TR mast does look to me to have a larger diameter than the SR mast. Maybe its the C25 TR v SR that has the same diameter.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> My bad. I misunderstood the discussion. I thought Jonathan's C25 had it's mast damaged in the hurricane, and he wanted to replace it before he sold it. I see now that he wants to reduce the size of the C250 tall rig to a standard rig. I guess I need to read more carefully.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2007 : 22:01:54

If you do have to cut off 3' of the mast, keep it! It'll make a great support when trailering! Make a base for it and it will fit in the mast step like a glove, you'll just have to make a nice 'top' for it so as not to mark the new mast where it touches during the trips.

Alternatively:-
you could make a great conversation pedestal bar stool out of it.
table lamp,
draft strip for door,
base for a bird bath,
Cut it into segments and engrave them as a nationals trophies.

Paul

Edited by - on

Jonathan Cuff
Navigator

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Cayman Island
173 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2007 : 06:59:36

Paul

You've got some good ideas there. Being fellow Brits we wouldn't throw anything away!!

It mentions a cockpit table in the boat specs but we can't find one, or any evidence on how it may have been mounted. Does anyone know about this? It says it's a standard option.

CHeers Jonathan

Edited by - on

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