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Advice on selling a boat.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/19/2007 : 10:43:04

So, Rita & I have been trying to sell our San Juan 21 basically since the day we bought our C-250 (Labor Day) with no luck. In the intervening months, we've had exactly two folks come out and look at the boat. Now, admittedly winter in the Pacific Northwest isn't prime selling time, but I'd have thought we'd have gotten at least a few more folks out here. Here are my observations along with a bit of ranting, so excuse me for venting a bit.

Here are the things I've noticed:
<ul><li> Folks say they're going to come out and look, but they never do, don't call, they just don't show up, and you (generally) never hear from them again (one notable exception).

This is the one that really chaps my hide. I'm a firm believer in keeping appointments I make, and if I can't make them I at least give the folks I'm supposed to see a call. I even call them if I'm running more than about 15 minutes late so they know I'm still coming. This seems like common courtesy to me, but maybe I'm a product of an older generation. I always look at things like this from my Mom's point of view, what would she do in a situation like this. This rarely fails me.

Perhaps they don't realize that you've gone to the trouble of taking the tarp off (not an inconsequential job), hosed it down, scrubbed off the little bits of algae that you never seem to be able to completely get rid of, opened up the cabin to let it air, scrubbed off the tread marks from the last inconsiderate people who wore black shoes to look at a white boat, etc., etc. Only to have them not only not show up or call, but make you wait around all day for them to show, ruining your day. Grrrr...</li>
<li>You answer lots and lots of the same questions even if they're answered in the ad.

I think a lot of this comes down to folks simply not reading the ad, or they've read a dozen ads for a similar boat and they no longer remember specifics. I can deal with this, I have a canned response that I send out, but that response gets very few responses.</li>
<li> You get far more responses if you deliberately don't include information or pictures. An ad for "sailboat, trailer, and engine" will get dozens of responses, but an ad for "1979 San Juan sailboat, trailer, and Mercury 7.5hp OB" will get you very few.

If the bare ad also contains no pictures, the response rate goes up dramatically. This seems counter intuitive to me. I like looking at ads for things I'm interested in that have inventories and pictures, so including them in my ad seems to be the way to go, but I get nearly zero resposnes. Now, I can see how this works, the people reading the ad are looking for a sailboat, and you've provided them a teaser amount of info, just enough to get them to respond. When they find out it's (A) nearly 30 years old (B) not a swing keel, but fixed (C) doesn't look like it's fresh out of the factory, or (D) some other factor that I simply don't understand, they just don't bother to respond to the mail.</li>
<li> Once you send people the pictures and information they're looking for, you never hear from them again.

Here's where I get really confused. They've spent the time to ask about the boat, they read the inventory (which is decent), and look at the pictures (the boat's in good shape), but they never take the time to even ask more questions. I've made it semi-obvious that I'm willing negotiate the price on the boat, but that doesn't seem to entice them. This is especially prevalent when I show them photos of the interior of the boat, and I simply don't know why. The interior is very clean, but it has been rebuilt, so there is some bare glassed in plywood which shows as brown on white, maybe that's the driving away force?</li>
<li> Offering to barter garners you lots of weirdos. Don't get me started... </li>
</ul>

So, my question is, do any of you folks have a tried and true method of selling a boat? I'm not looking to make a fortune on the boat, I'm just looking to sell it for a fair price, or even slightly less than a fair price. I'm actually thinking about donating it to a charity simply to get the tax write off for next year. Does anyone have information or experience regarding that process? I really want to get this boat out of my hair.

Thanks for listening, and any advice you can offer.

David
C-250 Mainsheet Editor

Sirius Lepak
1997 C-250 WK TR #271 --Seattle area Port Captain --

Edited by - on

jguyot
1st Mate

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USA
97 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2007 : 12:52:36

Hi Dave,
I have also found that most people are inconsiderate when it comes to appointments, so don't get me started on that one

I live up in the Northeast, and have found that people don't start thinking about buying sailboats until the beginning of May and then end sometime in July! I have not had good luck, other than those times. When I bought my 250, I put my old boat up for sale in April and never got a response on the ad til the latter part of May!
Hang in there, people are still hibernating!!

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2007 : 13:49:08

When I bought my current boat in the fall of 2001, I immediately put the old boat up for sale, but I wasn't getting any quality responses, only people looking for a free boat. Anyway, I took it off the market over the winter and then put it back up for sale six months later the following Spring and it sold in a week or two for pretty much my asking price.

Remember, fall and winter are buyers markets, and with an older boat, so is spring and summer.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2007 : 13:54:22

We've had ours listed pretty much since the latter part of 06. We had one call of interest in the late fall, then nothing until recently. Only one person came to see the boat thus far but have started getting what appear to be productive email and phone calls.

I think you also answered some of your own questions -

a advertisement void of real substance yields more calls and emails, but now follow-up after the initial contact. You've obviously answered their question and it wasn't what they want to hear. Whereas if you fill the ad with all sorts of details you don't get a response - same situation only they got the information up front on the intial listing.

Stick with it, get your boat listed in as many places as possible and get it hanging on every bulletin board you can find.

Hopefully we'll both be moving on by the end of April.

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2007 : 15:09:18

Here is my method for selling anything. 1. Detail for retail....make it look as good as possible. 2. Don't discount anyone as a potential buyer and don't get pissed if someone cancles on you. 3. Get the information infront of as many people as possible. The more people that see your ad, the faster you will sell your boat. Good luck.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2007 : 16:08:48

Get liquored up and roll the dice on eBay!

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2007 : 16:40:22

Hi Don, it is really not rolling the dice if you set your reserved proper.

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2007 : 16:43:57

We have had our 1986 C22 at a broker in Portland since January. No sale yet. I don't mind paying 10% to not have to deal with any of the hassle. I'll post when it sells.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2007 : 16:56:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 We have had our 1986 C22 at a broker in Portland since January. No sale yet. I don't mind paying 10% to not have to deal with any of the hassle. I'll post when it sells.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Around here it is 10% minimum of $1500. That can really take a chunk out of a 6000 selling price.

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dblitz
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2007 : 17:20:48

If you go on ebay and take a look at the completed listings you should be able to get an idea of what similar boats have sold for in the past. You should be able to get a similar price for your similar boat. If those selling prices are what you would consider fair, ebay may be the way to go. I sold my 76 oday 22 on ebay and I was very satisfied with that transaction.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2007 : 18:21:46

Duane, ouch! Here it is 10% with minimum $750 so half the bite. Still a chunk of change but for me worth not dealing with prospective buyers.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2007 : 18:47:03

We have three or four San Juan 21s at our lake that are for sale, no one wants any of them regardless of the price. And that is in spite of several others racing successfully on Wednesday nights and having a Nationals here two years ago. Some boat designs are simply done. Donate it.
sorry for being harsh.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 03/19/2007 18:47:42

Captain Bill
Navigator

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USA
148 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2007 : 19:22:11

David,

If you donate your boat first make sure the organization is a qualified charity. Here's the latest from IRS.GOV:

Deduction more than $500. If you donate a qualified vehicle (includes boat) to a qualified organization and you claim a deduction of more than $500, you can deduct the smaller of:

1) The gross proceeds from the sale of the vehicle by the organization, or

2) The vehicle's fair market value on the date of the contribution. If the vehicle's fair market value was more than your cost or other basis, you may have to reduce the fair market value to figure the deductible amount.

In short, this means if the boat is sold by the charity for $10,000, had a fair value of $9,000 at the time of gift, and your cost (including improvements) was $8,000 you can deduct the lower amount, or $8,000. If the charity sold it for $3,000 you can deduct $3,000.

Of course like all itemized deductions it is subject to other limitations but that's the nitty gritty on giving personal property to charity.

Good luck with whatever you do and happy sailing to you.

Bill

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2007 : 20:25:57

I think one of your observations hit the nail on the head... "It's hard to sell a boat during the Winter". I'd guess you will start getting more interest in May... or so. Are you advertising in 48N?

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2007 : 22:04:36

I'd be looking for a lake that has a fleet of boats like yours and advertise an 'open house' type event where prospective buyers could come and hoist a sail.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2007 : 22:22:12

Regarding Captain Bill's donation discussion, I believe you can claim "fair market" only if the organization hasn't sold the boat by one year after the donation. Thus, some people are quietly negotiating with charities to hold their boats for a year...

But get the appropriate IRS publication or get help from a pro--this is one of those things the IRS is tightening up and scrutinizing.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2007 : 23:25:12

I was actually thinking about donating it to a charity that would use it, not sell it, something like the Boy Scouts, or Sea Scouts if something like that still exists.

It's a good boat, it'd be great for racing, it's what it was designed for. Because it's a fixed keel you have to give up some time to the swingers, but you make up for it in shorter legs.

The ironic thing is, my friend who originally sold it to me about six years ago, found this ad in Craigslist today: [url="http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/295567552.html"]Wanted - San Juan 21 sailboat.[/url] The URL will die in a few days so don't bother clicking after about the 24th, but basically he's looking for what I've got for sale. I quickly sent off a note to them, but have yet to hear from them. We'll see, huh?

Thanks for all the responses to what was basically a rant, I appreciate it.

Edited by - delliottg on 03/19/2007 23:28:08

Captain Bill
Navigator

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USA
148 Posts

Response Posted - 03/20/2007 : 20:09:06

David,

Dave's got a point. Nothing specific about the charity not selling within one year but there is an exception to the general rule stated above. That is if the charity makes a "significant intervening use" of the boat before transferring it you may claim a deduction for the lower of fair market value at the time of donation or your cost plus improvements. The charity will furnish you a 1098C which shows if this exception applies. This may be useful info given your stated objective.

Happy sailing,

Bill

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2007 : 14:04:35

Thanks for the discussion. Good points for me as I consider selling osmepneo. I've figured a good time to list will be mid-April and the discussion seems to support that idea. But if she doesn't sell, then its back in the water at the club and I'll sail her this season.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2007 : 14:23:28

Update on the ad I mentioned above. They responded quickly enough to my email, but not a word since I sent them pictures and inventory. Par for the course I guess. I'll keep trying...<sigh>.

I ran into our marketing manager in the elevator a couple of minutes ago, and she thinks she knows someone who might be interested. Who knows?

Good luck selling Osmepneo Don.

Edited by - delliottg on 03/21/2007 14:32:29

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2007 : 12:22:58

Clean and pretty, clean and pretty. That's what sells boats, imho. Doll up the interior, and maybe even think about painting the hull (even one part paint). it's pretty easy, really, though it does not have a long life expectancy.

I've done that to one boat (an old O'Day Tempest 23' er some years ago). I printed up photos, etc. The first two guys who looked at it got into a bidding war. I was asking $4,000 OBO, and they kept going to $4,750. One guy dropped out then and then wanted to continue with a higher bid!

Get it where people can see it...and make her clean and pretty!

Gary B.

PS. I once qot quite desperate to sell an older Suburban some years ago. I put a sign on it in the Safeway parking lot that read "'88 (or whatever) Suburban....FREE!". Heads just about snapped OFF people's heads as they read it and came over.

The fine print said. "you just pay for the 89-2005 (or whatever) stuff! (then listed tires, brakes, AC work, transmission rebuilds, etc. for which I had receipts that totalled my asking price). It sold THAT day!

Edited by - Gary B. on 03/25/2007 14:42:25

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2007 : 14:36:50

Our C22 just sold!

It sat on the broker's lot for three months. I think the warmer weather is bringing out buyers. I spoke to the buyer on the phone and he kept talking about how clean the boat was and in what good shape it was. All in all I am glad I went the broker route. We ended up netting more than I would have sold it for myself and didn't do a lick of work on selling it. The broker gets lots of people coming by too which improves your chances. My two cents.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 03/25/2007 14:38:10

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2007 : 15:05:55

I've got some folks coming to look at my SJ in a couple of hours. Of course one of the bridges to town is underwater, so that might deter them, but I hope not. We've had a lot of rain in the past few days, and the river isn't supposed to crest for some hours now. At least the other bridge is still open.

Anyway, I'm hopeful these folks want the boat, these are the ones who were actually advertising for a San Juan 21, so at least they know what they're looking for. Keeping my fingers crossed...

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2007 : 15:21:20

In my experience, when you tell everyone that somebody is really, really interested, it turns out they're not. I'd keep things under my hat until I had a check, and then tell the world the happy news...

Hope I'm wrong!

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Tanglefoot
1st Mate

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USA
76 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2007 : 10:16:23

EBAY!!!!!

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