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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Jib Halyard Wrap

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jaclasch
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USA
104 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/29/2007 : 13:54:36

Last summer I installed a Harken 00AL furling system on my C25 tall rig. I had enough problems with jib halyard wrap to purchase a halyard restrainer but have not installed it. After reading other threads about this problem, I need some help based on experience.

1. Jib halyard tension. I have read a comment or two advising really tight tension. The Harken manual says “The jib halyard should be firm but not too tight.” I need to know what has worked for others.

2. Halyard restrainer. The manual states that “The halyard must pull slightly to the rear” (to the sheave). Looking from the side with binoculars from several slips away, I can see no pull to the rear (it looks parallel to the foil). According to the manual this is an indication a restrainer is needed.

Have any of you had to install the restrainer? Or did you find other solutions?

James
1983 FK/TR
Tiempo Dorado

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2007 : 14:53:25

I have a Harken furler and as you stated, my jib halyard is rather firm to prevent halyard wrap. I tighten the halyard by hand (no winches).

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ct95949
Captain

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Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2007 : 17:32:20

James-
I installed the same model two years ago. If your forestay goes to the aft pin then the foil and swivel will be parallel to the halyard which Harken and many others say will cause halyard wrap. I think the manual says 10 degrees min. angle which would require a restrainer, I think Harken also says to avoid using the restrainer if possible.
I rigged my furler and my new rf headsail at the same time and on the advice of Gary Swenson at Ullman Sails I moved my forestay to the front pin which gave the needed angle. He is very familiar with both the Harken furler and the C25 rig and said he knew several C25 customers who moved the stay to the front pin.
There will be several people on this forum who will say that I've made a big mistake and they may be right but I've sailed for two seasons in pretty strong wind with no problems.
Harken also stresses keeping the swivel close to masthead to prevent wrap. Regarding halyard tension, are you using an adjustable back-stay? I am curious to know if you've had any halyard wrap problems with the foil and halyard parallel?

Edited by - ct95949 on 03/29/2007 17:41:56

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2007 : 19:31:14

I may have been the person who spoke of "high tension"--I found it was necessary with my Hood furler to keep the drum properly positioned over the stem fitting, to which it was shackled. That may not be an issue with the Harken.

A P.O. of my boat had put a block on the mast to lead the halyard back at an angle from the forestay--I assumed that was to prevent the top of the swivel from turning with the bottom, causing the dreaded halyard wrap. However, the condition of the forestay suggested that he did it too late--apparently a wrap had untwisted the stay somewhat, right above the swivel. I suspect that angle is the reason for moderating the tension somewhat so the swivel isn't pulling the top of the forestay back toward the mast too hard.

"All things in moderation, including moderation."

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jaclasch
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USA
104 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2007 : 19:36:10

Craig, you've given me some things to check on. Just to make sure, you're talking about pin positions on the stem fitting on the bow, right? I need to look at that. As far as "halyard wrap problems with the foil and halyard parallel," the answer is yes.

I do have an adjustable backstay which I uncleat after sailing and then retension first thing when getting ready to sail next time.

Do you have any idea why Harken says to avoid using the restrainer? Does that mean it can create other problems?

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2007 : 19:53:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jaclasch
 Craig, you've given me some things to check on. Just to make sure, you're talking about pin positions on the stem fitting on the bow, right?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm thinking Craig's referring to the forward pin on the masthead.

James,

With your jib hoisted, is the upper swivel within 3" of the top of the foil?

Edited by - dlucier on 03/29/2007 20:10:14

jaclasch
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USA
104 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2007 : 20:26:22

Don,
The forestay is on the forward pin on the masthead. The upper swivel is within three inches of the top of the foil.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2007 : 21:02:14

Looking at the manual, it appears using the restrainer might affect the luff length of the headsail? Maybe not.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2007 : 23:28:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 Looking at the manual, it appears using the restrainer might affect the luff length of the headsail?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Maybe a little... But look again and imagine no restrainer. The halyard would practically rub against the top of the foil, and would have virtually no leverage to prevent the top of the swivel from turning (creating a wrap).

Additionally, for some reason my furling 130 had about a 10" wire pennant on the head, so it was even a little shorter.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/29/2007 23:33:01

ct95949
Captain

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Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2007 : 10:29:37

Dave-
The photo above is not like our boats, even with the stay on the aft pin there is separation of the halyard and foil but they are parallel.
James-
If your forestay is on the forward pin then you should have the angle and if the swivel is 3" from the top you shouldn't be having halyard wrap. Other than reducing luff length I don't know why Harken discourages the restrainer, call and ask them, they have an excellent tech support line.
I have photos of my masthead that I will try to get posted, maybe you could do the same. My furler operates very smooth and I can't see why yours doesn't.

Edited by - ct95949 on 03/30/2007 10:30:27

ct95949
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Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2007 : 10:49:21

James-
Thought of something else...Unless you are using a pennant between the head of your sail and the swivel adding the restrainer would require shortening the luff of the sail. When I ordered my new rf jib the most important measurement I had to take was max. hoist or luff length. A restrainer would change the max. hoist measurement.

Edited by - ct95949 on 03/30/2007 10:49:44

jaclasch
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USA
104 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2007 : 18:31:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jaclasch
 Don,
The forestay is on the forward pin on the masthead.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I just got back from looking again at the masthead and guess what? My memory is not what it used to be. The forestay is NOT on the forward pin. I will move it as soon as possible because this makes perfect sense now as a cure for the problem

Thanks to everyone for the prompt input. This forum is a gold mine of information!

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