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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Opinions on bottom paint...

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kbq
1st Mate

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USA
99 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/16/2007 : 19:06:53

Yeah, actually asking for opinions. Seems I might find a few 'round here! 8D

I've a 250 wing keel that needs painting. It will be spending several months in the SF bay, but also weekends in fresh water, a good bit of trailering, and long dry stays.

The wife and I will be doing the job ourselves. Given it's the busy (read $) season, we'll probably try painting on the trailer, and not use a yard. Yeah, that means the bottom of the keel will go bare...

Questions: given the trailering and dry storage, is ablative paint a good bet? Better a copolymer? Another type?

How important is anti-slime in the Bay? I don't remember slime so much as abundant growth...

The bottom is fairly peppered with residue from scraping and power washing. Needs to be well sanded. What's the best tools to use for the job? For instance, does a random orbital polisher with some sort of abrasive sponge pad do the trick?

Thanks, all!

Kevin
wait for me
250 wk

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2007 : 19:31:12

Personally even for cruising I like the VC-17 by interlux. I've used 4 different paints on different boats over the years and this was by far the easiest to maintain.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2007 : 20:28:23

Copolymers are ablatives. If she'll be dry a fair amount of the time, most ablatives will do well. Hard paints generally lose their effectiveness after a few weeks in air. I'm not sure where VC17 (vinyl) fits, or whether it's recommended for high-fouling salt water--you might check Interlux's site. Occasional fresh water dunks will kill a fair amount of salt water growth--cruisers around here like to run up the Connecticut River and spend a night--almost like taking their hulls through the carwash. (Although if you have barnacles, you want to get them alive, not dead.)

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2007 : 21:18:52

I've had good luck with Interlux Micron CSC... or variants thereof (Plus, Ultra etc). Works, very tolerant of dryout, very forgiving to and easy to prep/apply/maintain.

If you lift the boat off the trailer a bit you should be able to do the bottom of the wing. You'll need 1 gallon. (enough for 3 coats plus a bit extra on the high-wear areas). Nitrile gloves, disposable coveralls and plenty of ventilation a must.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2007 : 22:59:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ClamBeach
 ...Nitrile gloves, disposable coveralls and plenty of ventilation a must.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Coveralls? To paint the bottom? I generally manage to get almost all of the paint on the boat.

Kevin--I wouldn't use a power sander on gelcoat--just a light hand-sanding with a very fine paper. The gelcoat helps prevent osmosis and blisters, but not if you've cut into it deeply. You should also wipe it down with a mold-release-wax remover--if there's any still there, the paint will release. I agree with Clam--Micron is good stuff--remains effective for several years even when dry-stored for half the year (as some of us have to do). If the sticker shocks you too badly, Interlux ACT is a popular, economical substitute.

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2007 : 06:09:10

If you go with VC17, make sure you get the stuff that says "extra". that's the mixture made for salt water use.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2007 : 07:41:39

My understanding is that Catalina has barrier coated their boat bottoms since 1989, to protect them against blisters. If you remove that coating, you lose blister protection. You can replace it, but that means more work and expense. If you remove the old paint with chemical strippers, you'll probably either remove or damage the barrier coat. If you sand through the old bottom paint and into the barrier coat, you'll likewise either remove or damage the barrier coat.

So, my suggestion is, go easy. It's ok to sand it aggressively where the antifouling paint is thick, but, when you sense that it's getting smooth and thin, use a much finer grit paper, and go easy. Stop if you get through the antifouling.

It isn't necessary to remove every speck of old paint. If you get the bottom smooth, the boat will perform very nicely for the purposes of local racing, daysailing and cruising. You'll only need it better if you want to race in a high level of competition, where the sailors are all skilled and the boats are all well-prepared, and you can't afford to let the others have even a slight advantage over you.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2007 : 08:44:17

"Coveralls? To paint the bottom? I generally manage to get almost all of the paint on the boat."

Let's just say that my trailer has no problems with marine fouling. :>)

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2007 : 09:04:43

Relative to Steve's comments, if there is already bottom paint (I was interpreting that there wasn't), then compatibility is another issue. I don't believe VC paints are compatible with anything else, ablatives aren't compatible over hard paints (I found that out!), and definitely vice versa.

Barrier coat... Hmmmmm... I recall that the new C-250s I've seen had shiny gelcoat bottoms. Is epoxy perhaps a factory option? If it's gelcoat, wax removal is necessary and very light sanding is good to give it some "teeth".

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/17/2007 09:05:21

John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2007 : 13:10:13

Pettit has some bottom paints made for trailering and dry winter storage. Ultima SR, Horizons, and Hydrocoat. Don't have any experience with them though.

[url="http://www.pettitpaint.com/catalog_browse.asp?ictNbr=2"]Pettit Paints[/url]

Edited by - on

kbq
1st Mate

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USA
99 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2007 : 14:07:18

Thanks for the responses!

Question/clarification: the bottom is fairly grunged up from Bay growth. While I could get in there with a putty knife to clean it off, that seems rather ... tedious! Is there a good way to try and get the bottom smooth again without hammering either the gelcoat or the barrier? Or would something like an acetone wipe do the job?

Thanks!

Kevin
wait for me
250wk

Edited by - on

kbq
1st Mate

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USA
99 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2007 : 14:12:08

ClamBeach - any tips on lifting the boat enough to get the bottom of the wing? Or should I break down and pay a yard to lift it for a couple hours?

I'm good with tools, but don't have a bunch of hydraulic lifts...

Kevin
wait for me
250wk

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2007 : 14:44:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kbq
 Thanks for the responses!

Question/clarification: the bottom is fairly grunged up from Bay growth. While I could get in there with a putty knife to clean it off, that seems rather ... tedious! Is there a good way to try and get the bottom smooth again without hammering either the gelcoat or the barrier? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Have you tried powerwashing?

Edited by - on

kbq
1st Mate

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USA
99 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2007 : 15:07:27

Don - yeah, but only with the old electric washer. Got a more powerful gas one now that I'll try again with.

If I could only figure out how to con^h^h^htalk the wife into doing the job! :)

Kevin
wait for me
250wk

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2007 : 20:29:05

"any tips on lifting the boat enough to get the bottom of the wing? "

I've lifted mine 4 times now. Takes (3) hydraulic jacks, blocking, and some scraps of old carpet for padding between the hull and blocking. PM me and I'll see if I can dig out some photos.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2007 : 20:59:28

I've seen something in a store that claimed to dissolve barnacle residue from fiberglass... Not sure what or where. Trying to scrape them after they've dried is almost useless, but sanding them smooth and painting over what ramains is not unreasonable. They're nature's epoxy-based concrete.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2007 : 11:46:20

I've sanded the bottom just once since going to CCP ablative and when doing so used a drywall sanding head on an extendable boat brush handle. The handle that I used had a hose fitting on the end allowing for a dust controlled operation, a must when dealing with toxic paints. The longevity of the CCP paint is incredible, now going into its sixth year and working as it did new.

It's a bitch to stir however, requiring power mixing. I found that the best mixing head is one that resembles the DNA spiral helix, on a 1/2" drill. Just be sure to hold onto the can, it's going want to fly off the bench. CCP has about half a can of solids on the bottom that likes it where it is, preferring not to be in solution.

Have fun

Val on the hard DAGNABIT, #3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

kbq
1st Mate

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USA
99 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2007 : 13:28:03

Val - excellent suggestion on the drywall pad - actually used to have some of those! Not the vacumn version, though. Seems like a great way to sand a large area in a hurry...

Clam - I'll PM you. Thanks!

Thanks, guys. Got some great directions to pursue.

Kevin
wait for me
250wk

Edited by - on

kbq
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
99 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2007 : 13:40:27

Dave -

Were you talking about this?
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/33578/0/0/clean%20fiberglass/All_2/mode%20matchallpartial/15/0

Kevin
wait for me
250wk

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2007 : 14:02:16

Kevin,

Starbrite Boat Bottom Cleaner-Barnacle and Zebra Mussel Remover or as it is known by it's less fancy, non-nautical name...toilet bowl cleaner!

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2007 : 19:41:21

The key is what does the boat have on it now. You basically have to use the same stuff or remove it all. Personally, I would never take a power sander of any sort to a boat's hull.

I have used ablatives before but our new C250 had VC17 on it so I used that just last week. A wonderful paint to apply. I'm happy to be using VC17.

Edited by - on

kbq
1st Mate

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USA
99 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2007 : 11:33:15

Randy - all it has on it now is a bit of leftover wax - and crud.

One of the appealing things about the Micron paint - besides the fact it will take extended drying - is that I can get it in white. That'll make it easier for me to pretend like I did a good job!

Kevin
wait for me
250wk

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2007 : 10:35:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kbq
 One of the appealing things about the Micron paint - besides the fact it will take extended drying - is that I can get it in white. That'll make it easier for me to pretend like I did a good job!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I suggest the opposite strategy, as employed by many using ablatives... Put on one coat (2 quarts) of a color you're not interested in, and then two or more coats (one gallon) of the color you like... When your top-coat color wears away, you'll start to see your "signal coat" (but it will still repel growth)--an indication that you need to add one or more top-coats. With that approach, you don't necessarily need to paint every season (which might just be adding more thickness and weight than you need).

And besides, blue looks nice on a C-250. (I happen to think white bottoms look strange on boats.)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/20/2007 10:37:16

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