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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Mast raising

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/19/2007 : 12:58:20

The Admiral and I raised the mast for the first time last evening. It is another good reason to love our C250. The mast raising system of the boat and trailer is just awesome. Much easier than our C22 was! I also found some great tips in the archives here - such as the one about putting a ski cap over the furler drum - that really helped. Launch Saturday!

We cannot direct the winds but we can adjust our sails.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2007 : 13:52:07

My Admiral and I raised ours this morning. As I was about to walk off her (the boat, not the admiral) for the drive home, I looked up at the masthead and realized that the jib halyard isn't where it ought to be. I'm hoping it can be remedied without taking the mast down. I had to leave and won't get back until Saturday.

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2007 : 15:59:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 My Admiral and I raised ours this morning. As I was about to walk off her (the boat, not the admiral) for the drive home, I looked up at the masthead and realized that the jib halyard isn't where it ought to be. I'm hoping it can be remedied without taking the mast down. I had to leave and won't get back until Saturday.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hey John, do you still want to get together and pull my boat out? I'm thinking next week is the time maybe Tuesday. Good to hear you got the mast up. Did you remember the toping lift also?

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2007 : 16:58:59

Speaking of the topping lift, can anyone give me a quick rundown on how it's rigged at the top of the mast? The two times that I've had my mast up, I've managed to forget it. We are hoping to get a daysail in tomorrow on a local lake and I plan to learn how all my lines are supposed to be rigged (I'll be printing out your rigging question Randy as a guide). We only got a cursory set of instructions on how to rig the boat, and I've built a step by step set of instructions from what we've learned so far that we want to add to tomorrow.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2007 : 18:12:46

David... most topping lifts whether fixed or adjustable have the line afixed to the aft pin of the mast truck along with the backstay. Simply bend it on with a bowline knot.

From there several choices exist...
<ul><li>fixed</li><li>adjustable </li><li>combined</li></ul>

A fixed has the line rigged so that it supports the boom when the boom is slightly lower than its position when the sail is up and the mainsheet is hardened.

An adjustable lift allows setting the boom height to suit. There are several advantages of an adjustable including the ability to position the boom for more head clearance and the ability to position the boom so that when reefing the boom doesn't have to be pulled up to the reefl tack.

A third method uses a fixed length of line similar to that required for a non-adjustable topping lift but has a length of bungee (perhaps three feet) hog ringed along side the lift line in a fashion that causes a loop in the lift line when at rest. The bungee will lift the boom when the mainsheet is eased providing the same function as a boom kicker. An advantage of this method is that it keeps tension on the topping lift and therefore will retard sail chaff from a loose topping lift. A disadvantage is using it with a main with a generous roach... as it will not easily swap tacks and will deform the sail in light air on one of the tacks. Each time I've considered using one on my 250, I've talked myself out of it because of the sail roach issue.

Edited by - on

Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2007 : 20:28:33

David,
I have hull #270 and mine is rigged with an adjustable topping lift that is run through a sheeve in the masthead right next to the main halyard. It runs down through a block at the base of the mast and back to a rope clutch on the cabin top.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2007 : 09:38:52

Another option is to use a boomkicker which eliminates the need for a topping lift.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2007 : 11:06:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 Another option is to use a boomkicker which eliminates the need for a topping lift.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Just be careful when using the boom as a handhold or to break your fall.

Edited by - on

kbq
1st Mate

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USA
99 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2007 : 22:35:01

You wanna know what to do when you forget to bend on the topping lift?

Do what I've done ***three*** times now. Lower the *R$@(VM% mast. Maybe four times. Don't ask. My wife froths at the mouth over this........

Must me alzhuuuuumer4467ssz.

Kevin
wait for me
250wk

Edited by - on

Jarrett Anderson
1st Mate

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61 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2007 : 10:59:07

The mast raising system is sweet. I raised the mast last week in a 30 knot wind, no problem. I would have never tried that on my old V25.

I modified my topping lift so I don't have to remember it when the mast goes up. It is always attached to the mast. I cut the topping lift about 10 inches above the boom, with the boom at 90 degrees to the mast. It was about 30' of line. Added a snap hook that can attach directly to the boom. I put a ring on the rest of the line that runs into the boom. I connect the snap hook and ring while sailing for adjustability. I keep the main sheet tight with the top lift attached directly to the boom when I'm not sailing and it makes the boom a great hand rail.

Jarrett _/)

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2007 : 11:22:21

Well, after rigging the boat yesterday, I still only have a vague idea of how the topping lift is supposed to be attached. I understand completely how one works, it's just the specifics of this one are a bit muddy. No one's description of their arrangement seems to fit mine. What I did was bend on the line to the shackle at the top of the mast where the aft stay attaches. The topping lift comes down almost to the end of the boom, but not quite, and has a block on the end. At the aft-most part of the boom, on the port side is a little clam cleat oriented horizontally so it's pull is forward, with a small (1/8") blue line that has a ball fitting on the clam cleat's forward end. I ran the other end of the blue line up through the block on the topping lift's end and then...couldn't figure out what I was supposed to do with the other end. After scratching my head for a while, I simply tied a big bowline to it so it supported the mast, and if I pulled on the ball on the small line, the boom went up. However, the block on the end of the topping lift line doesn't give me any mechanical advantage, it'd have worked just as well to have bent the two lines together. Sorry I don't have pictures, but the battery fairy declined to charge the batteries. The odd thing is, I also have a clip leading off of the aft stay to support the mast as well. With the arrangement of the topping lift & blue line being less than obvious, it's easier to just use the clip.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2007 : 12:17:29

David, that clip is only for use when the sail is down. You probably knew that but sometimes people will clip that puppy on with the main up and then all hell breaks loose.

I installed the boomkicker yesterday and it certainly keeps the boom away from the cockpit and crew. It is one less line to worrry about and there will never be a "forgot to install the topping lift" moment for me. The Admiral would kick my butt off the dock if that happened!

We are launching today so when we finally get to sail the Nauti Duck I'll report back on how the boomkicker works during sailing.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2007 : 14:00:35

Kevin... rig the topping lift so that it doesn't need removed while trailering. One way to do that is to bend a snap hook onto the lower end of the lift about a foot higher than the boom is to be lifted. Then, taking the adjusting section of line from the boom sheeve, feed on a small block with a bail and then bend the end of the line to a clevis on the little metal tab supplied on the boom end.

Raise the mast as always with the upper section of the topping lift permanently in place to the mast and when installing the boom, simply snap the hook onto the bail of the block that stays with the boom.

The other way is as someone suggested in this thread...bend the small block onto the upper section. It is just a question of which is easier... standing on tip toes and bending a block onto the topping line, roving a line through the block and then bending the line to the boom or connecting a snap hook.

For those who add a block to the mast head, it is certainly one of several ways to do a topping lift but in my opinion is not optimal for several reasons.
<ol type="1"><li>It requires extra cost of double the line needed</li><li>It adds weight aloft... something most sailors try to avoid</li><li>It adds another potential slapping halyard that has to be dealt with when at anchor, mooring or slip</li><li>Last and worst... it adds another potential halyard that can make its way to the top of the mast</li></ol id="1">

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 04/21/2007 14:10:21

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2007 : 16:28:48

Well, I went back out to the boat today (1 1/2 hour drive) to finish rigging. I got all the lines led aft. Had some confusion regarding the topping lift but Arlyn's picure cleared that up.

http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/toppinglift.html

Now, just one problem. Can't figure out the jib halyard. I understand it is internal to the furler but just can't make heads or tails of the thing. One end has a shackle attached. I assume that to be for attaching to the sail. the other end of the line (coming out of the furler short of the masthead) is bent on to a couple of other lines.

I'm ready to splash but don't want to if I have to take down the mast again.
Anybody got any pictures?

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2007 : 07:39:23

John, I don't think I've any pics... but will try to explain.

The halyard car integral to the furler should have a short line (1/8" I think) about three feet long or so bent on it. This halyard will make to the cleat on the furler once the sail is raised. As this halyard line will be aloft when the sail is down, a temporary halyard extension has to be bent on it prior to dropping and removing the jib otherwise the short halyard would go aloft with no way to retrieve it.

After hauling the jib aloft, simply remove the temporary line and stow in sail bag where it will be handy when removing the jib.

BTW... this is more than asked... but might be helpful... the halyard on CDI furler is very ineffectual for tensioning the jib luff... it is simply too difficult probably because of the very small block in the furler as well as the small line is difficult to grasp well. A much better way to deal with tensioning the luff of the sail on a CDI furling system is to use a very small 1/16 inch nylon line on the sail tack. This tack line is about 5-6 feet long and forms a downhaul by roving it through the furler drum and around the tack cringle three times. The effect is there are now six strands of line forming the tack line and it also forms a block and tackle having a great deal of purchase to very easily tension the sail luff even though the line is very small to handle.

When using this technique... haul the sail fully aloft to the furler stop, remove the halyard extension line, cleat the halyard, and then rove the tack line and tension the luff wrapping the remaing tack line around the several strands of line and finally a knot to secure.

Leave this small line at the tack permanently when removing the sail.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 04/22/2007 07:48:18

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2007 : 08:10:31

Does John have a CDI or schaefer furlng? The install is different I believe. Mine is a Schaefer.

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2007 : 11:02:12

Thanks Arlyn. I'm going back out tomorrow and stare at it a while. I have a CDI furler.

Another question came to mind. When I raised the mast and attached the forestay I had help from a neighbor in the yard. Couldn't have done it with just the Admiral and myself. Anyway, he attached the base of the furler facing the wrong way. Didn't notice until I went to run the furling line yesterday. Can the drum be turned to face port without disconnecting the forsetay shackle?

Edited by - John Russell on 04/22/2007 11:03:54

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