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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Capri 25 Specific Forum

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drsam
Deckhand

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USA
12 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/13/2007 : 22:41:45

My wife and I recently bought a 1982 Capri 25, hull #345, and moved it into our slip.

I've noticed a very slow leak in the little bilge area where the keel bolts are located under the deck in the cabin.

The bolts themselves look brand new..no rust at all.

There is a hole toward the aft end of the keel bolt comparment however that has no bolt in it, and has rusty edges. From the architectural drawings I've seen on this site, I think this hole is supposed to be a place to screw in a cable in order to lift the boat.

This hole seems to be the source of the leak. About an inch or two down, the hole seems to be lined with what appears to be moist plywood, and when I dry everything out, I can find water very slowly seeping from the wood into the hole and gradually it fills this keel bolt compartment over the course of several days.

I appologize if I'm not being too clear here and/or using landlubber language. I'm a total newbie to the sailing world.

Is this something I should be immediately concerned about, or can it wait until I have the boat pulled out for a bottom job this winter?

Advice much appreciated.

Thanks,

Sam

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2007 : 01:25:55

#1 that is a cool sail number, and no the question is a very important one. First I would say that if this is the source of the leak, and the plywood is rotten, you might be stepping into a huge project, but for most of the Capri 25's this might be another foil of the hull liner. A photo is worth a thousand words so next time up to the boat, take a photo.

I would start by cleaning out the hole, and trying to get it dry. I also would take a look under the liner and the hull, you can ee the void from aft of the cooler storage, or under the step. Lift up the cooler lid and bend around to see if there is wear between the hull and liner. If there is water in this void it needs to come out. My Capri 25 gets about a 1/2 of water when it rans really hard. I am startig to think that when Catalina said the Capri 25 is a wet boat they meant it.

After the water is out of the hole, I would check to see if it really is plywood? I dont have the keel bracket, but it was made to go between two keelbolts, I think. I do believe that the hole you are looking at was made for a table leg, again it's just a guess. If you can get it dry, I would fill the hole with un-thickened epoxy, let it set overnight, then the next day, take the extra epoxy that wasn't soaked up by the plywood out and toss it. I would then mix up some thickened epoxy using some fiberglas shavings, mix it al together and fill the hole up. I would think that this would seal up the water coming in the bilge, and get you into the fall with a normal haul out.

I have never seen the plywood between the keel and he bolts, but my guess is that mine is shot, it's been wet for 27 years, and at some point I will have to replace it. Until then I go up to the lake one a week and use a battery operated wet and dry vac.

Edited by - on

drsam
Deckhand

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USA
12 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2007 : 12:30:48

I appreciate the reply.

One thing I've quickly realized upon acquiring this vessel is that I have a LOT of stuff to learn.

I'll try and get a photo of the area I'm talking about and upload it here in the next day or two hopefully.

Edited by - on

jmadd
1st Mate

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USA
85 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2007 : 12:34:30

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I dont have the keel bracket, but it was made to go between two keel bolts, I think. I do believe that the hole you are looking at was made for a table leg, again it's just a guess. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have a similar fitting on my boat, and it is for lifting the boat with the harness shown in Pg 11 of the architectural drawings. I have the O ring and have lifted my boat with that several times. I don't recall mine having access to any plywood under it though. I thought it had metal (probably the top of a keel stud) at the bottom.

Sam, I don't think I'd try lifting the boat with it until you figure it out though.

Where do you think the water is coming in through the hull from? My Capri seems to leak water into the bilge area (under the floor in the cabin, like Chris pointed out) from three places. 1) windows when it rains 2) The cockpit drains at the bottom of the transom when water comes in. 3) (I think) when I dip the rail, from the hull/deck joint.

Other likely spots are cracks around, in front or in back of the keel and the sink drain line. (close it off). A seam that might look like a crack around the keel is normal, but should be filled in with calk so water doesn't seep in there. Cracks in front/back of the keel in the hull are different stories. If there is water seeping in from anywhere around the keel area then you might want to pull the boat, fill in the cracks with 3M 5200 or West Systems Epoxy or something else to stop the water seepage until you can pull it in the fall when the sailing weather isn't so nice.

Best Regards, John

Edited by - on

jdkphoenix
Deckhand

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USA
2 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2007 : 15:13:26

Not an uncommon problem... There is a space between the cabin floor and the hull. And, as mentioned in a previous post, you can reach through the opening behind the cooler to feel for the space between the floor of the cabin liner and the hull. If you find that space you will need to add some movable ballast (crew) to the stern so you can get that water out. The "sump" arount the keel is lower than the area behing the cooler. My boat has that space and the entire aft end of the cabin liner sealed. I am planning to cut an opening in the cabin floor on either side of the keel so I can sponge any accumulation out.

Yes, there is a plywood filler between the cabin liner and the hull extending "several" inches either side of the keel. The lifting eyebolt hole seems to exist in many Capri hulls but having a threaded hole extending @ 1" further into the keel seems to have been an option. If the hole is less than 1 1/2" deep it is likely your keel does not have the lifting eyebolt option. My boat has the hole in the liner and the visible plywood but no threaded keel hole. I have a plate, available from Catalina, that is attached to two of the keel bolts, that allows me to use a lifting eyebolt. (I'll have to figure out how to post photos)

The source of the water is subject of many a post. Jmadd has the most notorious leaks listed. And, I agree with him... Enjoy the season, take a close look in the fall, research over the winter and take care of things next spring.

Edited by - on

drsam
Deckhand

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USA
12 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2007 : 15:26:00

Yeah, I think the lifting fitting you mention in the architectural drawings is what I'm dealing with here.

In the drawings, it looks like this hole is supposed to have a threaded metal sleave of some sort lining it. I think perhaps this sleave has basically rusted and disintegrated mostly away as there is some rusty debris in the hole.

It appears that underneath where the sleave used to be (lateral to it), the different layers of the laminated hull are exposed, and one of these seems to be some sort of porous material that I think is wet plywood.

I'm theorizing that perhaps the keel to hull joint is a bit loose allowing water to reach this plywood and has saturated it, so that now it can seep into the hole. The water that is seeping tastes like salt water (the boat is in salt water), which makes me think it is not as likely to be rainwater, etc. From what I can see of the rest of the areas under the deck, things look quite dry.

Can that 3m 5200, or any other similar product be applied around the keel joint with the boat still in the water? I don't really have any way to conveniently pull the boat out.

Also, do you think it would be of any benefit to try and put a little tightening on the keel bolts?

Edited by - on

jmadd
1st Mate

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USA
85 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2007 : 16:56:00

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Can that 3m 5200, or any other similar product be applied around the keel joint with the boat still in the water? I don't really have any way to conveniently pull the boat out.

Also, do you think it would be of any benefit to try and put a little tightening on the keel bolts?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't know if that can be applied underwater or not. I've heard that the 5200 will cure underwater, but it's just what some guy told me. You could maybe try looking for a 3M customer support number and ask them. http://www.3mestore.com/contact.html

I don't think I'd try tightening the bolts while its in the water because if it is a calk/seam issue it might be as likely to aggravate the problem by pulling the existing caulk loose as it is to seal up
any existing gaps. I guess you might just try diving under the boat and see if you can feel any give in the keel if you try to push it back and forth, but I'm just guessing here. But first just dive under there and look around.
Regards, John

Edited by - on

Andy_334
Navigator

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USA
206 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2007 : 19:55:52

[hyjack] John, good to see you come out of the shadows! Looking forward to seeing you, and the Pheonix, on the water soon! [/hyjack]

Edited by - on

drsam
Deckhand

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USA
12 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2007 : 07:48:00

Brief update.

So I went and looked at the boat a little closer today.

I'm 99.999% sure the hole is for lifting boat now.

In one of the storage bins, I found the metal bracket gizmo that attaches there. It is not threaded as I thought, but instead the part that goes into the hole is smooth sided. It also has a thick metal plate with three holes that line up with the three aft-most keel bolts.

What I thought was rust in the hole, appears to be mostly just dirt and small 1-3 milimeter bits of wood chips from the aforementioned plywood from which the water is seeping.

My boat doesn't appear to have a cooler that I can find, but there is a compartment under the step that leads into the cabin from the cockpit, where perhaps a cooler could be placed. I was able to look all around under all the storage compartments, etc., and for the most part, other than the bilge area containing the keel bolts, things look pretty dry.

There was a small amount (like a cup or two) of water in the fore-most compartment, but it was not salty at all, so I think it is likely rainwater that found it's way there. I'm not too worried about that.

Presently, I'm inclined to just stuff a rubber sink-stopper in the hole where the water is seeping from and then pull the boat this fall/winter for a bottom job, keel-joint inspection/repair, etc.

One thing I don't see anywhere on this boat in my inspections so far is any sort of ventilation blower or bilge pump.

Should I be looking into installing these?

By the way, thanks to everyone for helping a clueless newbie out.

Edited by - on

Andy_334
Navigator

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USA
206 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2007 : 21:36:51

I know several of the WYC boats use something like [url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&classNum=12407&subdeptNum=12406&storeNum=12&productId=250948"]this:[/url]

mounted on the bow, for ventilation when the boat is unattended. The one we have can be removed and the hole filled with a flush mounted cover, when racing.

As for a bilge pump, I know we use a wet/dry vac before we take the boat out for each race.

Edited by - Andy_334 on 05/16/2007 21:38:46

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2007 : 04:45:42

I mounted a solar vent in the forward hatch and a bilge pump in by the battery.

Edited by - on

hwy61sail
Deckhand

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10 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2007 : 13:10:30

drsam,

We had the same problem on our boat hull #263. In our case the plywood would dry out in the off season. Then when we splashed the boat in the spring, the boat would take on 2-3 gallons of water a day until the plywood was saturated and swelled. After about a week the amount of water was down to 1/2 gallon a week. The source of our leak was a hairline crack in the keel. To solve the problem I filled the gap between the plywood and hull with an epoxy mixture. I also filled in the lifting ring hole that you described. Since then we have not had any problems.

If you would like details on how I packed the epoxy in, let me know.

Steve

Edited by - on

joearcht
Navigator

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USA
241 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2007 : 07:27:56

Steve,

I'd be interested in how you sealed the keel and solved the soggy plywood problem.

Joe

Edited by - on

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