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Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2007 : 10:41:53

St.Louis......I got my new 250 there.....a few years back. They were nice. At that time they did not have a lot of experience with bigger boats....and the 250 was big to them.

Edited by - on

bear_tm4
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2007 : 14:38:12

Air conditioning,

catch ya later
Bear

Edited by - on

bear_tm4
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2007 : 13:33:55

Ahoy sailors, I went to St. Louis this past weekend and looked at sail boats. Out of fairness to H

I looked at the boats they had on the lot, a 41, 36, and a Catalina 320, The H's were nice boats, but I just dont like some of the things they do, apears cheap and not structural sound, anyway, I loved the little C320, was a nice little boat. The next day we drove up and looked at a C42, now my friends that was a nice boat, feel in love with on sight, so now I know for sure that I want a Catalina 42, heck soon as I order the boat a few weeks later, I am going to fly out to Cali and check it out during the build, as long as work will let me have time off. I really liked the layout of the interior, was nicely done. So, now just playing waiting game with insurance companys, Gov. takes its sweet old time. Any how, I think I will be very happy with the boat, and I think I have decided to go with the wing keel, its a tuff choice, I wanted the fin, but thinking about water depths in other areas, I think it would be good idea to have wing so I can get into more areas... Well, when the big day comes I will drop another line, or new thread and post some pics. Well guys thanks for the help and input.
Bear

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2007 : 16:01:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bear_tm4
 ... I loved the little C320, was a nice little boat. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Guess all things are relative.

Enjoy the process Bear.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2007 : 16:15:19

Oscar, what say you about wing versus fin on the 42?

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Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2007 : 10:58:27

Fin points (a little) better. Wing needs less water (duh)

AN IMPORTANT NOTE RE C42 DRAFT:

In keeping with tradition the factory numbers for the 42 are 1:All over the place, 2:Inaccurate.

The draft for the wing is listed at 4'11".....5-1/2 seems more accurate. Same with the fin, add about 1/2 to 3/4 of a foot. This makes the fin 6.5 to 7 feet, not 6'.......a real problem on Chesapeake and Florida/Bahama's

By the same token, those that have weighed their boats have come in thousands of pounds over factory numbers......apparently the factory numbers include are for a very dry and empty boat.

Edited by - on

bear_tm4
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2007 : 21:04:53

I think I have read some of the discussions about boat wieght and draft. I think its looking like I am going to go with the wing, I still like the fin, but my future might have me living on the East coast and doing some coastal cruising. I think with that in mind, I am leaning towards a wing keel. I dont think I will be doing any serious off shore stuff for awhile. So I think the next question would, when I do decide to go off shore even if its short distance stuff what would do you think of the wings ability to handle that, I have read that it does fin, heck thats what the guy at Catalina said...so whats your thought.
Bear

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Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2007 : 19:55:48

I've had the wing out (waay out) in 40+ knots and 20 foot waves....."works good, lasts a long time" as we say in the aviation business.

Again, the only advantage of the fin is that it points slightly better.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2007 : 00:30:04

New C42 what interior layout???

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bear_tm4
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2007 : 21:41:23

I am getting the 3 cabin pullman, with a wing. Although I still flip back and forth between it and the fin.

I also considered the centerline v-berth, but after seeing the pullman, I liked it much better, just seems a better use of space. The pullman berth seems like a regular bed, and that appeals to the females a little more...(have to keep that in mind) I am getting the 3 Cabin for several reasons, like the layout, and two kids teen boy and girl, and then when its just me and the future Mrs, and we are cruising can convert on cabin to storage area and still have room for guest.
I just wish the darn gov. would hurry up,

I feel like I am behind it, lol....I am really looking forward to the day I go down and its rolling in on the truck. My goal is to be there and go thru everything step by step. from lefting off the truck, bottom paint, setting in water steping mast, the whole thing. Will be a first for me. First big thing I have ever bought brand new. So will go armed with digital camera, plenty of beer n wine, and wonderment, as I watch a dream come true before my eyes...plenty of reading to do when it comes with its pile of books. well, talk to you guys later.
Barry

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2007 : 17:56:12

Way to go Barry, congratulations on the new boat.

I'm in the final negotaions on that Ericson 32 in Burnt Store Florida listed in Yachtworld.com. I'm just haggling over some of the Electronics that don't work, even though I was told it did. Why do people lie? GRRRRRR

Hey Oscar, I seem to remember reading in your log of your trips down to Florida that you said the fin would roll less than a wing. Or at least whatever you call the side to side motion (pitch or yaw maybe?)

But if you are in skinny water, it's a moot point.

Apparently when they designed the shoal draft ericsons they made the keel longer so you would get the same area. Of course you also have to figure in moment arm force in a roll too, so area down deep would be better.

I really like the Ericson 38's too. Maybe my next boat.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2007 : 10:57:19

Wings have more mass at the bottom of the keel, so the center of mass is generally about as deep as with a fin, and "stiffness" is about the same. But the fin will indeed do somewhat better at damping rolling motions.

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Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2007 : 17:47:35

I call it the "roly-poly" and yes a fin may be a little better at dampening....but the swells that I was in would have roly-polied at 20 foot fin......argh.

If you get the pullman, beware that the person on the outside has to crawl over the person on the inside in the middle of the night.....so, make sure the "gentle one" is on the outside.... lol. I ended up on the outside....we ended up with a routine where the Admiral would pull her legs waay up and I would exit via the foot end of the bed. It takes some practice. Accidental pokes of the admiral result in being whacked, or at least threatened with same.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2007 : 19:49:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Oscar
 If you get the pullman, beware that the person on the outside has to crawl over the person on the inside in the middle of the night...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Oscar, these youngsters probably don't know what we're talking about.

I do--I'm envious over the centerline doubles I've seen on so many new models at the shows--especially with the pillow-top mattresses.

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bear_tm4
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2007 : 23:27:27

Hey, LOL...I dont think the future mrs Bear will mind the pullman...
And you guys wonder why I cant make up my mind between Fin or Wing, Oh heck, well still thinking its going to be a wing, but I just have this thing for fins. Well, we will see what happens.
Oh, Oscar, check this out. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Catalina42/ Let me know if your interested. I would like you to help moderate. I want this to be a good clean group, one that is alternate place to share info, outside of the of the Assiociations site. more of a adding to, I noticed that several other groups like the Catalina 30/309, 27, 380, and 36 had groups. I figured why cant the 42 have its own group. Let me know what you think. Oh and give me advice on anything you can think of.
Bear

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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2007 : 12:33:13

"Outside" GROUPS

Just my humble opinion, but I've seen so many "outside" groups that the basic information about the boats ends up getting lost and too distributed. This website is superior to multiple sources of information, where almost everything ever written about the boats is searchable and available and is a tremendous help. The "outside" groups tend to deflect that centralization of information to the detriment of archiving the material. Email lists are the worst. The difference is basic: does a question get posted to a list and sent to multiple recipients who answer and copy everyone but which requires signing up to the list OR is the question posted where anyone who is interested can simply log on and see it without having to sign up, choose to participate or just watch the answers pop up (and most importantly be KEPT for archival retrieval by a search engine to help folks find answers without having to retype the same answers over and over)?

Many groups (like the C36) have what I consider to be perhaps the worst arrangement: a website, a message board AND an email list. That means the MB doesn't have all of the info that people swap. The email list doesn't cover the new owners (old new or POed boats), who in many cases don't even know the email list exists because they depend on the MB and the website. And the C36 folks have some very knowledgeable people, but the messages and answers get horribly diluted. The C310 guys seem to use CO.com, with little activity. The CO website which only shows activity for a few days at most, relies on a constantly rotating list of questions, which means inherently that they become so repetitious (what size anchor should I use, how do I bleed my engine, what's the "best": battery, electrical system, wife, girlfriend - you get the drift...) that most experienced folks end up getting "burned out" answering the same questions. Inevitably, these folks stop answering, or suggest using the archives, which ends up leading to less experienced people giving answers that in many cases are just plain wrong.

We're proud of our C34 'site, as you are of yours here, where we've archived everything we could, including the Tech Notes from way back in 1987. Our MB is "THE" single place to ask questions, much like this one, and is fully searchable. We used to have an email list, and many of us had to cut & paste information for our individual boat files and information. When we started the Message Board, almost ALL of those very same questions came back again from folks who weren't on the email list, but suddenly (and happily) became involved in something they could easily access, and choose to participate or just lurk-and-learn (not everyone likes to or can write about technical things).

We did have some difficulty getting folks to learn to use the MB when the email list went belly up, but now we're glad we did it (like this one here). You may recall when Sailnet had problems a few years ago, and all those Associations who DIDN'T put together their own MB's lost tons of valuable information.

Point being, I strongly recommend putting your efforts into accumulating the C42 information in one place, rather than spreading it out. The only point someone made a few years ago was that they preferred the email approach because they wouldn't have to sign onto the web to answer questions. Well, with the improved technology and computer speed, that no longer appears to be an issue. Also, you can always cut & paste the question, answer it on your word processor offline and then post it.

The same amount of effort you'd put into doing something "outside" may very well, for instance, be better put to improving the material on the C42 website and making that website for the C42s "THE" single place to go to, like this one. There's been so much written about the C42s in Mainsheet, for instance, that some effort to capture and post it (if it hasn't been done already) would be a worthwhile place to start. We posted ours with PDFs of the Tech Notes pages, and are now in the process of getting the "raw" original files and color pictures and posting them, since the Tech Notes are only in B&W and have been edited to fit the space, thus sometimes losing paragraphs of details and many color photos. You could also start a MB like this one for the C42s. I just checked the C42 site, and it appears they have just begun a "message board" type of forum, like this one. I'm only suggesting that separate is not necessarily any better and could well be effort that could be more valuably spent with a certain amount of centralization.

Congratulations on your new C42. I personally think all the discussions about wing vs fin are repetitive and meaningless by now. The center of effort's pretty much the same, if you're cruising the minor pointing difference is immaterial, they'll handle pretty much the same in outside waters, and if the waters' thin there is just NO CHOICE of which keel to chose.

Edited by - Stu Jackson C34 on 09/18/2007 13:55:47

bear_tm4
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2007 : 21:27:39

Stu,
Thanks for the input, I went ahead and deleated the group didnt seem like would be much interest. I do agree with you about centralize location, does make things easier.
Well Looks like I will get to order my C 42 by the end of the month, things are starting to roll along in the right direction finally....I will keep all posted.
Still no decision on selling my C 25, have a friend that might be interested, but I think breaking that to his wife might be tuff, so will also keep all posted on that as well, and if I will be putting Surprise up for sell.
Cheers

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