Association Forum - The future for us

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

The future for us

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

frankr
Captain

Members Avatar

256 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2007 : 07:26:08

I favor a membership without the mag option. I still lurk here (best forum around) even though I sold my c250 2 years ago and upgraded to a C36. I am a member of the c36 group and also the C34 group ( better forum). I don't need multiple copies ot all the expense of the associations.

Edited by - on

bbriner
Captain

Members Avatar

349 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2007 : 13:42:50

Whether I get the Mainsheet or not doesn't matter really (to me). I don't have a problem paying the $22 to support this Association, which for me is this website but mainly just the forum. Mainsheet is ok but it doesn't do a lot for me - I get my fix from the 4 other sailing mags I get and regularly read. I would think that the challenge is to let people join the forum (i.e. trial membership) first to see how valuable it is - THEN charge them the $22!

Edited by - on

DanM
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
256 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2007 : 23:08:51

Like many of the above, the Mainsheet doesn't add much value for me. It is more of a way to share our interests with family members and guests (who would probably not visit the Forum. The few dollars difference would not make or break anything for me.
Run up a trial for a separate level, if you think it will improve participation, but don't overwork yourselves.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3468 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2007 : 05:54:34

I am rethinking my earlier response after reading other comments. I think it would be a good idea to offer an option to pay just for supporting the association and forgo the magazine.

It just provides a cheaper cost that may entice some to join. The other thought was about one suggestion to list member or guest next to each posting response. I like the title listings based on number of postings (not expertise) of "Captain", "Admiral", etc...it's a bit humorous and would not want to take that away. But how about adding in addition if it is a "Guest Captain" or "Member Captain"...that kind of makes a person feel left out if not a "Member" and may encourage some to cough up an optional cost for just joining the Association or the full cost to also include the magazine.

I would think offering these addl options would make the book-keeping and software changes regarding the posting listings more tedious. But it's an idea depending on how much addl labor involved.

Edited by - OLarryR on 09/18/2007 05:56:53

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2007 : 08:30:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 I would think offering these addl options would make the book-keeping and software changes regarding the posting listings more tedious...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Thinking further about that, it occurred to me that we probably have no link between a log-on name and an actual member. That could be resolved in the dues-paying process by asking the member to provide a long-in name, or the log-in Profile by allowing for a member number. Either way, there'd at least initially be some things to do--after that, it might be relatively automatic.

Edited by - on

ChrisandCheri
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
30 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2007 : 05:58:20

Alright alright, if this was some kind of marketing trick, it worked. I just paid my 22.00 and feel great!!!!
btw-For everyone who contributed to building this site, Thank YOU!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2007 : 08:07:16

See--it works! And we haven't even implemented it yet!

Edited by - on

KD4AO
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2007 : 10:50:42

OK, so just how much support does the Assoc. get out of the $22. I would enjoy being a full member and supporting the Assoc., but I feel very little value from the Magazine which I did receive several years ago when I had a Cat 27. This forum and Assoc. is worth plenty from the technical support it provides and the opportunity to contribute some of the knowledge gained in 40 some years of sailing. Take away the Mag and I will become a paid member. And one other point, I take exception to the person who said "MONEY IS A NON ISSUE". Retired and on a fixed income, money is always an issue.
Thanks for all the tech help. Bob

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2007 : 11:17:20

Personally, I can't imagine that $10 or $20 is going to sway a potential member. That is chump change to anyone who owns a boat!

The Mainsheet is not critical for me but if we drop it I would not lower the membership rates.

Edited by - on

ChrisandCheri
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
30 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2007 : 06:22:19

I would not allow anyone to post unless they joined. I would keep the magazine(never seen it yet) and improve it. I would not lower the price. Price is a non issue for a product that is a luxury. People look for bargains on paper towels, not jewelry or Cadillacs. Just my 2 cents.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2007 : 08:03:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ChrisandCheri
 I would not allow anyone to post unless they joined. I would keep the magazine(never seen it yet) and improve it. I would not lower the price.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">We have always kept this an open, welcoming place for people thinking about a C-25, C-250 or CP-25, as well as for people who own one. This forum has drawn many people to these boats--the support, enthusiasm, and sense of community adds to the value of our boats. I lurked here for a year before buying, and these forums put a lot of other boats off my list because they didn't have anything remotely as good as this.

BTW, the Mainsheet magazine isn't ours--it's for and by all owners of Catalina boats of all sizes. The only issue is whether to make the subscription standard or optional. What we haven't heard is how much per membership that entails. I don't care one way or the other.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/27/2007 08:04:30

kevinmac
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2007 : 10:23:52

Whoa nelly, this thread is getting a lot of interest.

I am very interested in this discussion. As newly minted commodore, the first thing I want to work toward with the other officers and interested members of the association of the association is to put together some ideas, and then a member survey, for where we want to go as an association over the next couple of years. So thanks for all your thoughts, please keep them coming.

Here is some data. The money we pay mainsheet is a very substantial portion of the dues. I am too lazy to go look at the figures (maybe JB will chime in here), but I believe that more than 80% of association revenue goes to pay for the mainsheet subscriptions. Another substantial portion goes toward paying our membership processor (the person that receives your checks and paypal payments and keeps track of memberships), and the rest is pretty darn small. I may have this wrong, but if I have the exact numbers wrong, the spirit is correct.

The points about member site access, logins, etc are all fixable with a little work, and will be part of what we discuss over the next couple of months.

I hope we will all listen to each other on the idea of restricting access to this forum, but for my two cents, I am with Dave, I am way against it. I think this forum helps attract people to our boats, makes them more valuable, more saleable, etc. I think it would be nice if we all made more effort to encourage the users of the forum to join the association, but in my view, encourage only, not require.

Like I said, my two cents.

Kevin

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4306 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2007 : 12:37:16

I agree with Dave 100%. When I first started looking for a boat I was looking at C22's. Then I ran across a '82 O'Day 23 that was in really good condition but I couldn't find out much about the boat. Parts seemed to be an issue.

I decided to pass on the boat because parts were not readily available.

I decided then to stick with a Catalina because there was plenty of information available on the internet and the boats are supported very well.

We then decided to look for a C25 because we will be spending weekends onboard and it offers more room than the 22. I had very limited knowledge about the C25 until I came across this forum. The support here is the best I've seen anywhere and I've learned alot about the C25. Enough to know what to look for when shopping and I can't wait to learn more about how to maintain these boats.

Gary

Edited by - GaryB on 09/27/2007 12:39:21

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2007 : 13:57:27

Kevin: From what you say and I read here from others, it sounds like the Mainsheet issue is bigger than I assumed! Your survey will undoubtedly address that, as well as priorities for how the "pretty darned small" amount is spent. If Mainsheet represents $17 out of $22, I suddenly feel like my dues are not going where I thought they were or would want them to. Mainsheet goes almost (not quite) directly into my recycle bin. It's one of those things Catalina should be picking up as marketing--not something I'd pay to subscribe to.

My suggestion about "member/guest" designations in the forums might take some work to implement, but I think it could have an effect. I've seen it on other forums, and would not want to remain a posting "guest" for long.

Thanks for climbing into the breach!

Edited by - on

KD4AO
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 08:43:25

A little off topic but in response to Daves comment: <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It's one of those things Catalina should be picking up as marketing--not something I'd pay to subscribe to.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I wonder how many members are aware of a publication in Florida called Southwinds. It is published monthly, distributed free through dealers and available for a fee by mail or available free by download of a ".pdf" file. http://southwindsmagazine.com. Check it out. I wonder if something like that would be possible with Mainsheet. Bob

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 10:20:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by KD4AO
 I wonder how many members are aware of a publication in Florida called Southwinds. It is published monthly, distributed free through dealers and available for a fee by mail...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Things like that are in boat places everywhere. It's a function of advertising. Regional rags can pick up enough regional advertising to make it work. A national rag for a very specialized audience has problems getting the advertising and covering postage expenses, not to mention glossy paper and a 4-color cover.

Catalina should be very interested in Mainsheet--it helps spread "five-foot-itis" as well as brand loyalty. I wonder if we and the C-22 folks dropped sponsorship, whether Frank would pick it up to keep it going....... (What's he got--a couple of thousand association members for all sizes, at $17/yr. each?)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/28/2007 10:23:53

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 11:22:14

Since the topic has been raised again, I'll recalculate the actual annual cost of the subscription and post it here sometime this weekend.

Some additional facts as I know them, just to keep the record straight. Even though Catalina Yachts seeded the establishment of the magazine as a marketing tool (just as they did this association) it is not the publisher/distributor of the magazine, but only the largest advertiser. Catalina Yachts continues to seed the association by funding the first year of membership for buyers of new C250s that fill out the warranty card with their dealer. The C22 association withdrew from participation years ago and have their own publication, although anyone is free to subscribe to the Mainsheet by paying the subscription.

I think the primary intent of Frank's original message was to see how much interest there might be for people to opt-out of the subscription, as I have done for the past two years (I need to renew this weekend, too), in order for 100% of the dues (whether reduced or not) to be available for association use.

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
1316 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 11:52:32

Kevin: <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The money we pay mainsheet is a very substantial portion of the dues. I am too lazy to go look at the figures (maybe JB will chime in here), but I believe that more than 80% of association revenue goes to pay for the mainsheet subscriptions.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The fact that the association pays around 80% of its revenue for the Mainsheet is a little surprising. The cost of the publication should be, in my opinion, entirely covered by the paying advertisers. Editorial, stories, submissions etc, are obtained by Mainsheet "free of charge". Granted there is a fair amount of set-up work database and administration including mailings, but... unless I'm mistaken, that should all be amply covered by the revenue stream of placed ads.

We do value the magazine and like the inclusion of articles, stories and comments of other Catalina sail boats

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 19:13:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sea Trac
 Since the topic has been raised again, I'll recalculate the actual annual cost of the subscription and post it here sometime this weekend.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The current annual Mainsheet subscription rate per member works out to be $12.50.

The 80% Kevin referred to is the total fixed cost per member that goes into maintaining the association (i.e., Mainsheet subscriptions, database management, webhosting, etc). Meaning that there is only about $4 dollars per member, or $2,800 per year on a good year, available for discretionary spending or retained income (non-profit, of course, so no cash dividends

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 19:25:10

Hmmmm... Mind changing......... Can we drop Mainsheet and avail the membership of some method to subscribe if they want--perhaps on the site or as an option on membership renewals? Quite frankly, if not, I will only re-up with the association (as an alum) because of an extreme case of altruism (and because I really like this place, as evidenced by my clogging up the forums).

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 19:42:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Quite frankly, if not, I will only re-up with the association (as an alum) because of an extreme case of altruism (and because I really like this place, as evidenced by my clogging up the forums).<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That's why I've renewed three years post-ownership as well, Dave. (Just re-upped tonight.) However, I instruct Lu Ann (database manager) to remove my name from the Mainsheet distribution list via the comment section of the membership/renewal form. I'm not interested in it, not even when I owned a Catalina, and magazines in general are extremely harmful to the environment so I refuse to take any at all unless they are electronic. (Decimation of the old growth borreal forests for paper and leaching of cyanide into our watersheds from the landfills -- oops, sorry, not sailing related, but not really political either.)

Edited by - Sea Trac on 10/01/2007 15:18:00

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2007 : 17:38:01

I had no idea that the Mainsheet cost our association so much per member. That's almost a criminal amount!
Now I am even more in favor of dropping our inclusion - a la C22's.
How do I stop receiving the Mainsheet? Even without it I would happily pay the $22...

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.