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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Getting rid of my antifouling paint, now what?

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2007 : 10:55:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">What kind of paint is that <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Hard paint. Bought it from Mike at GLM - on the advice of experts here and the Interlux website.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I believe I am not allowed to have ablative paint on my boat on my freshwater lake <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It is not stated specifically that ablative paints cannot be used on boats - however, it can be interpreted to be illegal.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Was going to buy a powerwasher but I can invest in a 6 pack of beer for Stampeder instead, and if I'm lucky he'll let me have one.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
6 pack??? well, if you don't mind going to the store three times. (four if you want one)

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2007 : 13:32:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 I thought C250's came with a factory barrier coat? If so, you might want to ensure the chemical stripper won't damage the barrier coat...Just a thought.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Really? Can anyone confirm this?

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2007 : 13:24:47

methinks this is where the pressure washer would come in handy. Blast off the ablative paint at a pressure that would not harm the factory barrier coat.
Proceed as if there is a factory barrier coat until proven otherwise.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2007 : 14:18:28

Youthinks that the presure washer would be enough to take off all of the ablative paint? Never heard about this being done hence the need to go with a sodablast. I would feel better to have some kind of paint on there than just Gelcoat unless someone here has done it before. I'm also expecting "suprises" since this is a second hand boat I have no idea if there are repairs under the current paint. I think the simplest for me is to remove the ablative paint, patch problem areas, sand and paint.

What would be the hardest shelled paint (antifouling not neccessary) I could put on there just for protection? The Admiral would like a dark blue or red bottom.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 12/02/2007 14:19:39

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2007 : 09:08:34

Hardest would probably be Baltoplate. But that would require wet sanding to about 600 grit or more and annual application.

VC 17 is pretty darn hard...

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2007 : 13:15:42

Steve,
If you're going to sail it dry (as in it spends most of it's time on the trailer), and you still want to have a bottom paint, I'd recommend VC17. There are several formulations based on the water you're going to use it in. There are fresh & salt water variants, as well as brackish. It also comes in several colors including the blue & red your wife wants. Mine had VC17 for fresh water on it, which changes color to a nice dark blue after a couple of weeks of immersion. It goes on a very copper color and I put on the saltwater variant, which was supposed to turn dark gray, but it looks blue to me. It seems like the thinner is simply alcohol based on the smell, and you could certainly clean up drips with alcohol no problem.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2007 : 14:31:17

A serious pressure washer will eventually get all of the ablative paint off, but it's not a very environmentally-friendly way to do it. Soda blasting is more for hard paints, and around here requires the building of a sealed tent around and over the boat, which is a substantial part of the cost. Stripper would be my choice, collecting what peels or is scraped off with old sheets or whatever and then disposing of them as you do toxic waste in your area. A wet scotchbright pad might suffice for what the stripper doesn't get--every trace of the ablative must be gone before you apply hard paint.

If you put on hard paint, you're probably going to want to refresh it from time to time... and hard paint builds up until you go through the process to remove it. I'd think long and hard about getting into that cycle until after you have the ablative off and see what you've got. If it's a good gelcoat surface, that will be the easiest to keep looking good over the years as long as you're dry-sailing her. And in the water, that bottom is pretty much out of sight. To paraphrase the song, "White is the easiest color that you'll ever know."

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/03/2007 14:35:42

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2008 : 19:53:23

Well plans have changed a little. We got a mooring buoy and the boat will sit in the water all season. So now bare bottom isn't an option. I see that VC-17 needs to be repainted every year. I would rather have a paint that I need to redo about every 3 years. Any suggestions? How about that Pettit Trinidad SR that was suggested earlier?

Mike (Stampeder) you mention you have a gallon of paint to sell? What kind is it?

How much paint will I need for 2-3 coats on my 250?

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 02/09/2008 19:54:17

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2008 : 23:39:57

Steve it takes one hour to do every year and you can do it in a suit and tie, it is by far the easiest bottom paint to own and use.

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Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2008 : 00:59:25

Right because I read you don't have to sand or do anything (else than maybe a powerwash) before applying the new paint. Forgot to mention that I'm in fresh water by the way.

How many quarts will I need? Since this will be on a fresh bottom I think I need to put 2 or 3 coats?

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 02/10/2008 01:01:26

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2008 : 06:53:11

If you are going to change from ablative to hard finish bottom paint, you will have to remove all of the ablative paint first. VC17 is very good, I hear and read. However, we used Interlux Ultra, took 1 1/2 gallons for 2 coats overall and a 3rd coat on the keel. Bought the paint online and saved about $50 over WM price.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2008 : 08:05:08

I painted the bottom of boat 1 1/2 years ago with Micron XT. It's similar to the way an ablative paint works but Micron XT is a copolymer. Practical Sailor has done a series of reviews on hard paints and ablative/copolymer paints testing them in different waters and so perhaps reviewing past articles is a way to figure out which paint to go with/consider and then what others experience has been.

I am sailing in the upper Potomac River...not exactly a barnacle infested area ! But we do deal with slime and if that is a concern, then some of the paint formulations are now prepared with slime control..so something to also consider.

As far as it easy to paint every year...well that is true for most people that take their boats out and store it on dry land during the winter but in my instance, the cost is astronomical to paint every year.

I know this scenario does not apply to many but here is what I have to go thru: My 300 slip marina does not have any travel lift services but it does have flow agitators for winter months and so I can leave my boat in the water and go sailing all year as long as the Potomac does not freeze over and so far this year...it has not frozen. (I was sailing just a couple of days ago.)

Anyway, the Washington Sailing Marina is located across the river...takes me by sailing/motoring and depending on winds about 1 hour to get over there from my marina. I can get a pressure wash special on Tuesdays for $75...that I do annually. But to get the bottom painted is a big ordeal. They have to raise the boat and transport it to their maintenance yard which is located about...500 ft away..so there is a charge for that transport to/from. Then a daily or weekly charge for time in the mtn yard. It is generally not just a day in there since the timing of these things is it winds up being time off from work during the week and they move and set it up one day, then you have some boat prep work before the painting and then the transport day back to the pier. By the way...there is another thing to contend with...they draft at their pier near the travel lift bay is shallow and so they have to work around 2hrs or so plus or minus high tide to do the raising or lowering.
Painting every year in my area can add about $400 or more to the cost and that does not include the painting or prep. If you use an ablative/copolymer in our area...you can get 3 or more seasons out of it....which is a significant cost savings over that period.

Same old story...what are you willing to pay ? I am willing to give up a yearly painting but went with local sailmaker for my new sails at somewhat higher cost than I could have gotten them thru the web....but in just a 3 year period...forgoing an annual paint job still saves me more while I go with high quality other goodies.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2008 : 10:20:27

Buy 4 quarts, $40 / qt. you will have some left which stores just fine. You will find it has the consistency of alcohol, use the new small diameter foam rollers and a roll of blue masking tape. Latex gloves are a good idea, I don't wear a mask but I will not recommend that because the copper powder is extremely fine when you add it to the paint. Power washing any bottom when the boat is pulled is critical to maintaining a bottom. If you don't use a crane to hoist your boat onto your trailer then I would make sure to have pads or rollers as boat supports on the trailer, rollers are the best for power washing. I can't imagine having bunks on a trailer, they are so limiting.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2008 : 10:42:20

>"presure washer would be enough to take off all of the ablative paint?"

I've pressure washed ablative bottom paint many times. If it's a decent application you aren't going to remove it with a conventional pressure washer.

You're looking at sanding, a chemical stripper, or some sort of abrasive blasting.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2008 : 10:56:12

When I bought my 89 I used a gas powered power washer with a pulsing head. It worked wonderfully taking a hard, (not ablative) paint off the hull. I had 20 minutes of spot scraping and sanding left to do. I did it in the parking lot at the club and washed it all into the lake, I love Kansas.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2008 : 12:32:02

An Ablative paint will not come off if pressure washed with lower pressure - Just depends probably on the pressure used and the spray pattern. Some of it is in the drain water - you can see the blue tint. By the way, the marina I go to uses a filtration system with all drainwater being filtered before being released. (They have an elaborate setup where the drainwater is pumped to a filtration room.)

When I bought my boat, the PO had did an annual pressure washing and the paint was 4 years old. I had it pressure washed soon after I bought it and again after paint was 5 yrs old. Then decided to have boat removed a month or so later and have it repainted...I probably could have even gotten a 6th year out of it - existing paint was in pretty good shape.

Edited by - OLarryR on 02/10/2008 13:28:15

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2008 : 12:51:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Frank Hopper
 ...washed it all into the lake, I love Kansas.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...like GE loves New York.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2008 : 14:16:17

I removed ablative bottom paint that was at least 6 years out of the water with a scrub brush, pressure washer, and soapy water. Took a couple of hours.

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2008 : 21:46:46

IMHO- a pressure washer will remove antifouling paint if you do it soon after taking it out of the water....like at the end of a season.
After 6 months on the hard - you will likely be looking at a sanding job or sand/soda blast job.
Lots of mobile sand/soda blast outfits in Red Deer and CGY.

The weather should be half decent this week - I'd suggest going at a test patch with 80 grit sand paper to see if it'll come off easily.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2008 : 23:06:44

I'm going to buy that stripper this week and do a test patch under the transom.

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