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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

rudder seam split

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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/18/2008 : 21:35:42

Having read the other posting about rudders splitting, water/freezing etc...have decided to remove the rudder (balanced model, but age is unknown) while on the hard and store inside for the winter. I noticed that the PO covered over the forward edge with some type of hard and brittle compound. It was cracked and chipped a little. I removed the loose pieces and discovered the vertical split/line as shown below.

It runs the length of the edge between the pintles and seems to be the seam between two pieces of stock making up the rudder, it is not evident on the lower edges. Any thoughts on best way to seal over and protect? It is also not evident on the trailing edge.

Many thanks!

Jerry

Edited by - jerlim on 01/18/2008 21:43:52

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2008 : 22:37:19

Note your rust stains? Order new gudgeons and pintles. Take off the old hardware. Dremel out the split a bit so it is well defined. I would spread some thickened epoxy into the crevase, sand it, then put a layer of glass over it, sand it and call it good. I have in fact put cloth around the entire perimeter of my Balanced rudder even though I had no scary split.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2008 : 07:55:31

Take it from someone who has cracked a rudder in half at the gudgeons in 8ft seas and 25kts of breeze.

The rudder should be taken off the boat in the northern climates every winter and stored indoors. The screw holes for the gudgeon should be drilled oversize, filled and then redrilled at the regular size.

If you think your rudder is wet then it is probably soaked and it would to be swiss cheesed over the winter and kept in a warm dry area to dry out.

Your split in the rudder needs to be dremeled about 1/4 inch filled and sanded much like Frank mentioned above.

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Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2008 : 08:26:05

However you repair it keep a close eye on it after for a few years after the repair is done, Becaues you don't know if water has been seeping in to the core. I repaired my rudder, with a similar leak (below the water line) by the methods already described including re-glassing tee entire edge,after Attempting to dry out the core by storing it indoors for the winter and then useing a hair dryer to drive out any residual moisture. But I think the damage had already been done and after a couple of more years I had to replace the rudder. an easy way to check if the rudder is waterlogged is to tie a line to it and toss it in the water - It should float. If it doesn't then cut it loose and buy a new one.

Edited by - Renzo on 01/19/2008 08:26:26

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2008 : 09:07:13

OK - so in addition to the repairs as recommended and replacing the pintles and gudgeons, what should I do about the cracking as shown?

Many thanks for your thoughts!!!

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2008 : 09:58:03

Personally, I would replace the rudder. On our C22 the rudder had a similar crack and repair. I did the whole dry out thing. In a strong wind day the rudder snapped in half at the water line. If the core is soaked and rotted then drying it will make no difference. I would suggest drilling a half dozen 1/2" holes into the rudder at various sites so you can really see what the core condition is. If the core is solid the holes are easily filled with epoxy. If the core is rotted replace the rudder.

Your lower gudgeon mounting area looks like it has been stressed, perhaps the PO ran into something with the rudder?? I would put a layer or two of additional glass on the inside of the transom for strength, sand out the cracks, and re-gelcoat the area.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2008 : 10:57:06

Jerry--what they said about the rudder... but that lower gudgeon definitely needs attention. That's one of the highest stress points on the entire boat, especially when it's sailed in seas that cause a pitching motion. Happily, the lower one is relatively easy to get to (on my boat, at least). The gudgeons are backed by relatively small bronze plates that are threaded for the bolts--probably the worst under-engineered elements of the boat. I would remove the gudgeon, pry out the bronze backer, grind the area flat (the backer is set into some epoxy goop), slather some unthickend epoxy over the area (to seep into any interior stress cracks in the laminate), and then, after the epoxy is set up, I'd make a new backer as follows...

I'd probably choose Starboard for a backer, since it is likely to see some moisture from the bilge. A larger plate can be easily fabricated--Starboard works like hard soap with regular wood tools. Round all corners to avoid pressure points. Swab the holes through the transom with unthickened epoxy and let set. (It's solid glass at that point.) Drill the holes in the backer (this might require a second set of hands), put the gudgeon in place with new, longer bolts and a little caulk under the gudgeon, and let it set up so it'll form a pressurized gasket under the gudgeon later. After it's set, apply lots of caulk to the backer, fit it the bolts, put on large fender washers and nylock nuts, and the tighten them down enough to squeeze caulk out around the edges. The objective is to spread the caulk into any voids to get even support between the transom and the backer across its width. After it's set up, tighten just a little more--just enough to put pressure on the caulk inside and out but not enough to overstress the Starboard.

The gelcoat on the outside can be repaired as discussed in various other threads--you want to keep moisture from getting into the laminate.

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Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2008 : 14:41:36

Way to go Dave!!

That repair write-up should be posted in the Tech Manual for future reference.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2008 : 16:25:52

Thanks, Renzo, but I must caution: I didn't do it--(didn't have to)--that's just roughly how I'd probably do it if I saw that much cracking. Now let's hear how someone like Leon Sisson actually <i>did</i> it...c

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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2008 : 10:04:46

Thanks everyone for the great insights - I appreciate your responses and will let you know how things turn out.

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