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The most difficult part of sailing is...

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Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/18/2008 : 21:25:38

easily, departing and/or entering my new slip.

I've recently moved to a new marina and the location of my slip provides quite a bit of protection from most wind except anything directly out of the south. Yesterday, solid wind 15-20 kts with gust to 25 kts, and, of course, directly out of the south. With blue skies, temperature in the upper 70's, and the coolers packed, my friend and I headed out to the marina. The Might M is positioned stern to while in the slip so any wind out of the south is directly on my beam. With that scenario, the plan seemed pretty straight forward...goose that new Tohatsu 9.8, make a quick turn and get the bow directly into the wind...piece of cake...ha ha ha. NOT! Seems that kind of force produced by that kind of wind can really make you rethink your strategy. Immediately, the wind started pushing the bow of the boat toward the leeward docks!! With quick action and some major boathook repelling, we were able to get the bow directly into the wind, regain control, and head out towards Tampa Bay. A fantastic day of sailing to say the least...a reefed main with a reduced genoa kept her on her feet with a good 20 - 30 degree heel while maintaing 6-7 kts. Of course, all good things must end so after storing the sails, and knowing what a tight entrance we had back into the slip, we decided to stay outside the marina and practice maneuvering the boat utilizing only the motor. Quite amazing! With the wind directly from behind, and the motor in neutral, we were clocking 2-2.5 kts! We came back around for another practice run and with the motor in reverse and proper acceleration, we were able to reduce our forward motion to a much more manageable speed. With our confidence up and boathooks in hand we entered the marina for the approach to my slip. Just as practiced, the wind directly on our stern, motor in reverse, and with the boat almost at a standstill I utilized the boathook to grab the dock on the opposite side of my slip. While securing the bow on the opposite dock, we were able to pivot the stern around by using the power of the wind and slowly back into the slip. Piece of cake!

The point of my ramblings...I've been out in some sh#% where my original furler jammed, I've been out in some sh#% and my rudder snaps off at the water line, I've been out in some sh#% and I run aground...I probably could go on, but every one of those times it was an exhilarating rush...you know, the kind you get from a good roller coaster ride. Around the slip the feeling is different...more of an anxious feeling. Seems with the tighter quarters in the new marina, I may not be able to single hand as often as I did at the old marina. I'm hoping the anxiety diminishes with practice.

Don B
86FK/SR #5216 "Mighty M"
Southwest Florida

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2008 : 21:38:07

Good work! One suggestion... For leaving the slip in those particular conditions, just reverse your pattern for coming in (the "piece of cake") by pulling out, allowing the bow to be pushed down, and then backing down the fairway. Backing a distance like that takes some careful management of the rudder, but the whole thing might be much less of a wrestling match.

Edited by - on

Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2008 : 21:52:53

That's the catch Dave...it's a "U" shaped area...slips on one side and nothing but dock on the other. I'm in the last slip of that area so there's only one way out and that's south. Probably why it was one of the few available slips in a very popular marina. It is such a tight turn that anything over a 25 footer in this particular slip just wouldn't work. I'm confident I will make it work...just will take a little practice, practice, and some more practice.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2008 : 07:11:20

My friend's slip is like yours, at the end of the fairway. He usually enters it bow first, and backs out. When he's in the slip, the dock is all along the right side of the boat, and the fairway is to the left. When he goes out, he starts the engine and leaves it idling in neutral. One person is on the bow with a boat hook, using it to get the bow pointed toward the fairway. The other person is on the dock, holding the transom off the dock. When the boat is lined up, then the guy on the dock steps aboard, puts the boat in gear and motors out. It's no problem with 2 or more people. It can be done singlehanded, but it's more complicated.

I usually singlehand my 35, and can usually get in and out with no problems, but I back into the slip and leave bow-first, which usually makes it a little easier. If the conditions are too adverse, and I'm singlehanding, sometimes I just have to postpone leaving until the conditions become more favorable. Sometimes you just have to admit that you can't do it today.

Also, don't be afraid to ask the marina operator for suggestions. He's renting the slip to you, and he has probably given more thought to the problem of getting in and out of that slip than any other person in the world, so he should have some ideas.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2008 : 07:44:35

I'm most of the way to the end of my canal (that exits east) and dock my boat stern-east. If I've got a stout east wind I simply (from the dock) hang on to the bow, push the stern out, and let the wind bring it around to where I'm now pointing east.

Edited by - DaveR on 02/19/2008 07:46:08

lewalskim
1st Mate

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USA
70 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2008 : 08:45:06

Don,
I know all about the wind that day. All I had to do was move my boat from a temp slip on the south finger around the middle finger and into my own slip on the seawall. I applied liberal use of my outboard throttle and reverse gear to stop forward momentum into the transoms of the boats docked on the seawall after I gingerly rounded the middle finger. Good thing that I just replaced my spun prop! I've got my C250 in Safety Harbor Marina above the Courtney Campbell Causeway.
I'm in the second slip and only one slip away from the dock. I've been practicing getting in and out for 5 years and still have problems when it's windy. I always drop my centerboard a bit, turn the outboard and give a quick burst of throttle and it helps tremendously to get the boat pivoted around. A strong wind from the south ALWAYS makes it harder to get out and causes me grief when I come back in.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2008 : 11:02:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Around the slip the feeling is different...more of an anxious feeling. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I agree, I'm way into a marinna with a narrow curving channel that is lined w/ gazillion dollar boats...cross winds always make me uncomfortable.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2008 : 11:06:58

Don,

Docking safely in high winds sure is the hardest part of handling a sailboat in coastal waters.

Could you make use of a temporary spring line and a post at your slip, to rotate around the post and point the bow upwind?

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2008 : 11:44:37

Take a look at Randy's version of a docking line. It might make for an interesting solution.

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15645&SearchTerms=spring,line

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2008 : 12:02:03

I sail in a lot of wind but my orientation is N-S. Most of the summer I have no side force issues but when they do happen, usually out of the East, I develop a real appreciation for those who deal with it often. I "fender up" my slip and have training wheels. Also, slowing down means your rudder has no effect and your keel also has no effect. That translates into side slip without a keel effect and no steerage with no rudder. I would use speed to stay in control... I think.
the catcher

Note the wheel, (I now have two), and the large fenders hanging from my dock cleats.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 02/19/2008 12:04:59

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2008 : 13:45:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Don B
 That's the catch Dave...it's a "U" shaped area...slips on one side and nothing but dock on the other. I'm in the last slip of that area so there's only one way out and that's south...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">OK, let's try another variation (maybe): As Steve said, go in bow first--then when exiting, back out of the slip, turn the stern south as you're backing, and continue backing down the fairway. If you have a piling on the south side of the slip, you could use a line from it to help pivot.

It seems the rest of Steve's friend's method could be a little risky with a transom-mounted outboard and rudder...

BTW, those dock wheels like Frank shows are great--I have one on the corner of my finger dock, and might add one at the midpoint. They're much more reliable than fenders when the boat's moving.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/19/2008 13:46:34

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2008 : 13:46:17

Linking the engine to the rudder helps alot in these conditions.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 02/19/2008 13:46:34

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2008 : 14:43:20

Don,
I know exactly what you mean, my slip is also at the very end of the fairway, and I have to make a 90° turn into it at the last minute, and try not to hit the boat on the other side of my slip. To make it more interesting, we're in a tidal river, so if the tide's going out, I can be doing a couple of knots with my engine idled, and the direction of the set is away from my side of the slip and into the other boat. As soon as I make the turn, the current's trying to push me sideways. So far we haven't touched the other boat, but there have been a couple of occasions where had he been there, we would have. We keep a couple of boathooks at the ready, and I've bought a dock wheel, but haven't installed it yet. I figure with the dock wheel I can cut my approach closer w/o having to worry about taking a chunk out of my hull. Ideally I'd like to be able to just slip in w/o any fuss, but unless the tide's just right, that doesn't happen.

Edited by - on

Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2008 : 15:00:00

Thanks to one and all for your thoughts. Presently, I will keep the Mighty M positioned stern in and hope that the answer may lie with a few strategically place spring lines. The dock master has indicated that a few extra lines around that area are acceptable.

Things will take an interesting turn in a couple of months as the marina will be opening a new restaurant on that dock directly across from my slip. Seems I will have quite the audience now for my departures and returns...I do recollect now that the restaurant advertised "Live Entertainment"

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2008 : 20:21:05

I know what you mean about marina docking anxiety. My anxiety comes from all those very expensive boats that I'm trying not to hit.
I was moored in a very tight channel between two lakes with varying current running between. The two most anxious times were always coming and going.
The big lesson we learned : human beings do not make good boat fenders. A 115LB Admiral cannot effectively stop a 5000LB boat, regardless of the speed.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2008 : 22:32:17

Another thing that helps in tight places and crosswinds is to be aware of and either use or counteract the "prop-walk" effect. For anyone who isn't aware, when the boat is moving slowly or not at all, in forward gear, a burst of the throttle tends to push the stern to starboard (pointing your bow to port), and reverse gear pulls the stern to port. You can counter that by turning the engine, but it can keep the boat from turning as much as you would expect, or make it turn more. Sometimes it helps--other times it hinders... but understanding and anticipating it always helps.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/19/2008 22:38:28

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3477 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2008 : 05:26:55

My slip area is partially protected by a wall and a bldg that is not far away. But if the wind comes from a different direction, then I do not get the semi-protection from the bldg, etc.

I almost always back into my slip. I find that on somewhat windy days, it is best if I approach the slip a little faster so that the boat maintains it's path and the bow does not get turned by the wind/wavelets. I then hop off the boat an dtie up quickly before the boat moves away from the slip. In many cases, the wind actually helps keep the boat against the slip, but sometimes the wind is blowing in just the opposite direction making it difficult to get the boat alongside before losing ablance and falling into the drink. What I have been doing lately which helps out a lot is that I move the excess line from the furling rig over to the side closet the finger slip. Then after I hop off, if it looks like I am going to have a hard time pulling the boat over to the slip, I grasp the furling line and can pull the boat over easier than by grasping the lifeline, stanchions or fiberglass side.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2008 : 12:10:01

Larry: Have you thought about leaving a springline on the dock, with a loop you can pick up with a boathook and drop on the winch? Then as the boat moves further in, the line pulls it to the dock, and you can leave the engine in gear and turn it as necessary to keep the boat lined up tight against the line while you casually step off and secure the other lines. (PS: It's best not to pull on your lifelines or stanchions.)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/20/2008 12:16:05

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4312 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2008 : 20:06:50

I have an 8Hp 2-cycle Suzuki and I wish my motor had prop-walk. I might as well not have reverse. Reverse works OK when backing out of my slip but when coming in I can put it in reverse and there's nothing there. The boat just keeps on trucking along. From 3 knots I could easily go a 100 yards and still be moving a 1/2 knot. Adding throttle only makes it cavitate.

I probably need a different prop but I'm learning to compensate. I'll probably replace it in another year or two anyway.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2008 : 20:56:32

Prime real estate, Chris!

Gary--you have something to aspire to... Compared to the PO's engine, my XLS high-thrust Honda 8 stopped Passage like she hit a pillow. (Right Bruce?)

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3477 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2008 : 22:30:19

Dave,

I have a spring line attached to the end of the finger slip. After I tie up, I then tie the spring line to a cleat located on the starboard side aft. I could use it almost same way I am using the furling line. The spring line is of larger diameter, so it would be preferable to use.

Edited by - on

2far2drive
1st Mate

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USA
74 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2008 : 23:45:53

Yeaa... I too have to move in and out of a slip that really sucks. When Im down this weekend, Ill try and take some pictures. Usually we have a S/SE winds here which puts them just on the upper port side of the bow. Backing out, I have maybe 28ft before I hit the powerboats in slings under a covered building behind me. I have to back up and get it just right to start swinging the bow off to starboard and try not to nick the very rare racing Beneteau from Europe. now Im moving down my fairway , maybe 15ft wide. Sailboats and poles on the left, the huge covered building with grady whites hanging out to catch my shrowds on my right, basically on my lee. Im getting it down to an art though, the pressure not to knock a grady white out of a sling is pretty high. I can do it single handed fairly easy in winds up to 15kts. Thats the price I pay to be slipped for freeee!!!!!!!!!!!!11

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2008 : 09:45:53

Look up the use of springlines in Chapman's or Small Boat Handling, both are very thorough. Last year my slip in Pensacola had avery shallow sandbar about one boat length plus 3 feet directly aft, and too shallow shore side to stay stern to. After a cowboy attitude generated misadventure with no serious consequences, I went back to proper seamanship with springlines and no further problems.

Yesterday, after a 2 hour broad reach to and one tack return from Ft. Pickens under a bright sun in 10 - 12 kts. with no swell or chop, I tried to end a perfect day with style. There is rarely anyone at the marina on weekday afternoons, but yesterday there was a full galley of onlookers when I blipped the throttle to to swing my stern and let the breeze back me into my slip. The steady breeze failed, the engine stalled and we drifted sideways to the pilings with the admiral and commodore (adult daughter) manning boat hooks and a slip side sailor passing me a well placed line. Maybe a good laugh is a better finish than a stylish entry. It doesn't matter how long you've been doing this, it still happens, but hopefully less often.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2008 : 12:29:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 Dave, I have a spring line attached to the end of the finger slip. After I tie up, I then tie the spring line to a cleat located on the starboard side aft. I could use it almost same way I am using the furling line...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Larry... I was suggesting that a springline go on first--somewhere close to amidship (such as a winch) as you're moving in. The engine can then hold the boat against the dock as you step off and secure the other lines. I have a springline for just that purpose--it makes single-handed docking easier in winds and currents. I do the opposite when leaving--the engine holds the boat against the springline as I unhook the other lines, and then the springline comes off as I'm moving out of the slip.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2008 : 13:14:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 Dave, I have a spring line attached to the end of the finger slip. After I tie up, I then tie the spring line to a cleat located on the starboard side aft. I could use it almost same way I am using the furling line...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Larry... I was suggesting that a springline go on first--somewhere close to amidship (such as a winch) as you're moving in. The engine can then hold the boat against the dock as you step off and secure the other lines. I have a springline for just that purpose--it makes single-handed docking easier in winds and currents. I do the opposite when leaving--the engine holds the boat against the springline as I unhook the other lines, and then the springline comes off as I'm moving out of the slip.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I simplify the process. I think that leaving the spring line on the dock ready to be picked up with a boat hook as you enter is backwards and fraught with risk. If you miss the pick up, you're bound for a hard stop cuz I don't think you'll get a second chance. Even if you catch it first time, you still have to turn around and fasten it somewhere and get rid of the boathook. I think that's too many steps at the busiest time of the whole docking process.

So, I eliminate the "pick-up, turn, stow boathok and fasten line to boat" steps by having the spring line fastened to a mid-ship cleat prior to entering the marina. It's easier to do that on your way back at your leisure. I have an oversized loop spliced into the opposite end of the spring line (could just as easily be a large bowline). I simply drape the loop over a piling at the end of my finger pier as I go by it. It stops the boat short of the dock painlessly. I know that not everyone has a piling which, admittedly, makes for an easier target. But, the loop could just as easily catch a cleat on the deck of the pier. That changes a 4 step process into a 1 step process. Fewer chances for me to screw it up!

When departing, I do the same thing as others by removing the spring line last but, I take the line with me. This way, I don't have to worry abut it being where I need it when I need it.

Besides, my Admiral destroyed my boathook. I really don't know how.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2008 : 14:57:12

Actually, John, I don't use a boathook... I pick the springline up off the dock with my hand and drop it on a midship cleat that's right there. I do about what you describe at other docks--"lassoing" a dock cleat with a midship springline.

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