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Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2008 : 20:28:01

Nice topic for VC17.

I'd like to see a pic and same thread for Micron Extra with Biolux.

Curious

Deric

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2008 : 21:23:45

Looks sweet Randy,
now tie that boat down to the trailer and the trailer to the tiedowns.

JIC.

Paul

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2008 : 00:19:47

I'm considering VC-Tar and trying to see how much this will cost me. From the WestMarine site:
------------------------------------
Total Thickness Required: 5 to 7 coats, 2.0 mils dry, 3.1 mils wet
Drying Time: To touch: 2 to 6 hrs. Total Time to Full Cure: 5 days
Coverage: 115sq.ft./qt.
------------------------------------

From previous posts it seems that you need 1.5 quarts for a C250 for 1 coat. VC-17 has a coverage of 85sq.ft./qt. Simple math tells me that for VC Tar I would need 1.1 quart per coat (let's round this down to 1 quart per coat).

So I need at least:
5 quarts of VC Tar @ $50 = $250 (for 5 coats)
5 quarts of VC-17 @ $50 = $250 (for 3 coats)

$500 total. Any comments on my calculations?

What is the difference between VC-17M Extra, and VC-17M Extra Antifouling Paint? Which should I choose?

VC17M Blue - Quart 6437172 V106EKIT/QTCA $54.99

VC17M Extra Antifouling Paint - Blue Quart 3732849 YBA406KIT/QT Sale $49.99 USD

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 04/17/2008 00:25:14

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2008 : 05:41:34

Deric,

The PO had some brand of ablative paint on the bottom. It lasted 4 years with him. I, same as PO, keep my boat in the water all year-long. During the past seasons, I had that 4 year old paint pressure washed annually and after 1 full addl year (5 years total - used on the Potomac River - slime is the issue...not barnacles), it was time to repaint the bottom.

I had the bottom painted with Micron Extra. It acts like an ablative. It is a copolymer that also sort of is a soft paint and comes off with time. I have had it pressure washed after the first year with it and while the bottom had a slime coat, it was not all that bad...came off easy enough pressure washed. I have photos of when the boat was in the yard and being painted but unfortunately I am at work and cannot access those photos which are on my PC and not on my website. If I remember, I will try and load those photos tonight or perhaps tomorrow or so to give you an idea of how the Micron Extra looks new. But to tell you the truth, I think most paint jobs regardless of what is put on is going to look great. It really has to do with the prep work. Okay, maybe a hard finish paint is going to look a tad better. The real photo you would want is what does these paints look like after a year or so before and after it is pressure washed or whatever needs to be done to bring it back to just paint. Also, if the boat is kept in the water all year-round and if those waters are fresh or saltwater is going to have a big impact on what the paint jobs look like after a year. Obviously, a single season paint job is going to be redone year to year but if you want a multi-year paint job, then you are probably going to go with a soft paint....but it's flat looks hard unless you are real close up to it and don't run your finger along it...or you will have a blue or red, etc finger. I can tell you that after 4 and even 5 years using the Ablative paint (in freshwater w/heavy slime issues), the bottom of the boat looked very good after a pressure wash. That is really something compared to those days when I used a single season paint. The marina (Washington Sailing Marina) across the river from where I keep my boat regularly has a Tuesday pressure wash special for $75 - that's raising the boat out of the water, pressure-washing it and lowering it back in. At that cost, it is a good deal. Some do it twice a year. I have been doing once a year as the PO owner did as well. But this year, I may get it done this Spring besides when i normally have it done in the Fall. that is because during the winter, I hit something in the river - probably an underground log or something (while I was in about 4 1/2 foot water). That was some hit with the keel taking a big hit that slowed me up but rolled over it. I am curiious to see if there was any damage. No water on the inside from the keel bolts..so I am hoping it is still seamless between the keel to the hull bototm and that the keel/wing has no major dents.

For some of us, it is a very expensive deal to get the bottom painted year after year. In my area, land storage is actually on a wait-list basis and many just keep the boat in all year-long because we get many days in the winter when you can go sailing...and some of us are die-hards anyway sailing in very cold weather. Even had one day when I broke thru thin ice to get out and go sailing. For me, to get the bottom painted is not any where close to the $75 for just hauling it out like the pressure-wash special. the boat has to be hauled by the 3 mph travel lift to the maintenance area which is a distance away from the travel lifting area. That to/from the maintenace yard and the hauling out is expensive and then they charge $200/week in the maintenance yard just for sitting there. Rather than take the days off from work and you never know about the weather, it is sometimes just easier to let the yard do the prep and painting while I come after work to attend to other things like outboard maintenance and hull side poliglow treatment. So, during the week there is work for all but the costs can be steep. So...a multi-year paint works well in our area both for anti-fouling protection and keeping maintenance yeard costs down while maximizing sailing time.

Anyway, I will try to remember to load those photos.

Edited by - OLarryR on 04/17/2008 06:00:21

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2008 : 10:45:32

Steve, if you are in a lake then the VC17M Extra is fine. You are not in high fouling waters.

The only problem I see with your calculations is that I never get the coverage they say on the can. It takes more VC17M than they say it should.

Also, are you sure you need the barrier coat? Putting 5 coats of barrier on is going to be a lot of work since you must hit every piece of the bottom including under the pads. I'd give Catalina a call and ask them before I embarked on that project. My .02

Edited by - Nautiduck on 04/17/2008 12:20:08

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2008 : 11:16:19

Does a boat that sails in cold fresh water 5 months of the year need to be painted?

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2008 : 11:29:11

Larry,

When I found my boat last Fall the PO was very upfront and honest. He told me he hit something out in the bay doing 4.5 - 5 knots. Someone was on the foredeck at the time and was almost tossed over the side. From what I understand when the keel hit, the boat lurched to one side as it went around the object.

When I bought the boat I had an inspection done mainly because I wanted to know if there was any damage from that hit. Basically there was none! A few very, very light marks on the leading edge of the keel but no dents and no signs of the Catalina smile. Bilge was dry too.

Knock on wood, I haven't hit anything yet.

Well OK, I MAY have hit the dock once or twice when docking.

Edited by - GaryB on 04/17/2008 11:29:35

Kip C
Navigator

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USA
243 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2008 : 11:55:36

Steve,
On a boat as new as yours, I'd skip the barrier coat ( VC Tar). VC-17 is so thin and comes off relatively easy. Unless you already have blisters, I'd deal with them as they come. As Randy suggested call Catalina Yachts. Just my 2 cents.

Edited by - Kip C on 04/17/2008 14:40:51

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2008 : 22:09:04

Gary,

Thanks for that info regarding your "hit". I am hoping the same is the case with mine. By the way, I was out saiing late afternoon/early evening today.

I was checking my records and I did paint the bottom with Micron XT. I have photos, unfortunately they were taken before the complete job was completed and the photos do not really show off the bottom that well - Photo area bit dark. Anyway, I think I took the photo after the yard worked on a few of the paint blisters and about 4-5 dime size real blisters. They first put some waterproofinh paint on and then started painting. So...the photo reflects only a very partial paint job.

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2008 : 07:32:10

I am wondering what the law will allow with these oil based paints in the next few years. The bottom paint on my 250 when I bought it was Petit Hydracoat, a water based paint. I've offen thought of moving on to VC17, the paint most used at our club and offering a much smoother finish when sanded. The laws have made me wait.

My wife and I just recently had the hardwood floors sanded in two of our rooms. The owner of the company offered two alternatives. Oil base and water base polyurethane. He explained that next year the oil base paints will be gone. New laws (don't know if they are state or federal) will dictate how paint is made. This affects a lot of different paints. There could be some type of exclusion for the boating industry, I just don't have enough information.

Yesterday I just put another couple coats of Hydracoat on the bottom of the boat. It may not be as fast, but it's easy, dries in seconds, and cleans up with water. Oh, it also comes in several colors.

Does anyone have any more insight on the oil base paint regulation?

Edited by - on

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2008 : 19:07:19

Now that I have started taking off the ol' antifouling paint and primer from my boat, I am really starting to appreciate the fine look at a well done bottom paint job. I have sooo much more stripping and sanding,,,ugghh.,. oh and let's not forget the keel paint job as well.

From someone who is only beginning to understand the work and result of bottom painting.

Edited by - on

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