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Mounting curtains (not C25)

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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/20/2008 : 17:15:53

Well, there is a lot of knowledge in the readers on this site, and I hope someone won't mind helping me even though it is not a C25 question.

I need to mount curtains in the interior of my cruising catamaran. There is no wood, only fiberglass, where I would like to put the curtain tracks (tracks are better than rods in this application). The construction of the boat is fiberglass/gelcoat over CoreCell foam.

Is it usual, as I am told, to use short self-tapping screws into the fiberglass to mount the metal curtain tracks? The reason I ask is because so far, nothing in this boat seems to be installed that way. The load bearing stuff is through-bolted and bedded. The non-load bearing stuff is glued with some sort of white material, not sure what it is.

My choices are to use the screws and the metal tracks, or to use vinyl tracks (which will not last as long) and glue them to the hull. If I glue them, I am not sure what an appropriate adhesive is. I asked a pro curtain installed, he says he always uses metal tracks and screws, but that almost all boats (that he works in, higher end) have false wood panels that he can screw the screws into.

What do you think?

Thanks,

Kevin Mackenzie
Former Association Secretary and Commodore
"Dogs Allowed"
'06 C250WK #881
and
"Jasmine"
'01 Maine Cat 30 #34

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2008 : 19:21:07

Self adheasive velcro!

Paul.

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johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2008 : 20:36:40

Kevinmac
I would use wood (what ever size you think would work) to give you depth for screws and secure it with silicone seal...not 5200 then attach the metal strips to the wood with screws.

This would make things a little forgiving just in case.

Wheres da boat.... am I allowed to look?

paulj

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2008 : 22:19:03

I'm thinking Gorilla glue. The weight of the curtains is pretty low. Why expose that core to any risk? I really think that less is more here. Don't overthink it or over-engineer it. It's curtains.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2008 : 10:19:41

I wouldn't use 5200 or 4200. See if you can locate some of that two part putty that is on the informercials all the time.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2008 : 12:34:20

I'm not confident silicone seal will hold--it has very low adhesion, and there are better adhesives. The curtains might be light, but the pulls to open and close them might not. Corecell is generally 3/8", 1/2", or (unlikely) 3/4"... If you can figure out which, you could safely use little self-tapping screws with a dab of your favorite caulk. I strongly recommend a hand-drill to avoid punching through the outside--when stiff foam grabs a spinning drill bit, it can practically yank the drill out of your hands.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 04/21/2008 : 13:24:29

I read an article on DIY boat mag online about some stress damage to a hull caused by presure on the hull at a point where screws were located inboard not quite touching the hull. The presure was enough to push the hull (your cabin top) onto the screws (your curtain fasteners.)

If you do use any kind of screw, may I suggest you drill the core diameter of the screw, use a dremmel to cut a lengthwise slot along one side of the screw thread and then cut off the point of the screw. Basically turning it into a selftapping thread that will not splinter off the face of the cabin liner, the cut off point will reduce the depth the screw needs to penetrate in order to hold tight.

Paul

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2008 : 22:09:54

Blunting the screws is a good idea... But my read is that he doesn't have an outer hull and an inner liner--he has a Corecell-cored hull with a finished inner surface. (I have something similar with Nida-Core composite.) Corecell isn't likely to compress except under the pressure of being T-boned by another boat. Also, ordinary sheet-metal screws do a pretty good job of self-tapping into fiberglass.

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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2008 : 11:35:45

Thanks guys. Just to confirm, what I have is a CoreCel foam cored hull. I think it is at least an inch or more thick.

From listening to your comments, I think I tend toward gluing the tracks, but I am still not certain what adhesive to use...

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2008 : 13:47:44

If you have an inch to tap into I'd go #6 1/2" stainless steel screws.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2008 : 13:40:32

As someone with an aversion to drilling into gelocoat, I'd be inclined to look at self adhesive hooks to mount curtain rods. If they don't work, remove them. No harm, no foul.

[url="http://www.organizedliving.com/product/code/2829507753.do?code=NEXTAG#"]Umbra Strong Adhesive Hook[/url]

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johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2008 : 21:28:28

I've used this 3M product many times for projects including some on the boat and they have performed well, also had some failures. I used 2 side tape for mock-ups and it has worked so good I just left it in place.
There are more double sided tapes on the market which are stronger like the ones used on aircraft, that's where I was introduced to double sided tape, but you have to shop around, availability usually is the deciding factor.
If your load is known you can calculated how much tape to use.

There are positive engineering reasons and trade offs for using screws, bolts, etc and double sided tape.

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?66666UuZjcFSLXTtnxfVo8s6EVuQEcuZgVs6EVs6E666666--

paulj

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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2008 : 18:16:36

Randy,

The whole hull is an inch or two maybe, including both laminated sides, and the core. The laminate on one side would be much thinner.

Paul,

Thanks, I'll have to look into it. Double sided tape would certainly be easier...

Kevin

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2008 : 18:39:58

Kevin,
I'm with Paul Johnson on this one, use some of 3M's heavy duty double sided tape. If you get the red stuff and adhere it w/ enough pressure, it's extremely unlikely to come off. I use it to mount wood to faceplates for turning on my lathe. You have to saw through it with dental floss afterwards to get it off, you almost can't peel it off. I'm pretty sure I picked it up at either Lowe's or HD, maybe $13 for a roll or so? Just use lots of pressure when you first apply it, then give it about a day to set up, it should handle the weight of your curtains, etc. no problems.

Look for VHB (Very High Bond), I think that's the type I have, but the core on the inside has no writing on it at all, so I'm not positive. In any case I think it's marketed as "heavy duty" double sided tape.

Edited by - delliottg on 04/26/2008 18:41:56

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2008 : 22:23:26

Just consider that, if you want to remove the rods (to clean the curtains?), that "VHB" might take the gelcoat with it. A less aggressive tape or a couple of little screws might be less damaging.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2008 : 02:23:30

Dave makes a good point, I'm not sure how strong the bond is between the gel coat & fiberglass, compared to the bond of the tape. However, you can pretty easily de-bond it with acetone, and some judicious finger nail work. You still have to do the saw it in half with the dental floss to get at it. My experience is solely with a steel faceplate & a piece I'm turning on my lathe. I cut the piece away from the tape on the lathe & discard the piece that was attached to the plate, then I saw the faceplate away with the floss & peel it with acetone or alcohol to clean the plate. 3M makes a million products there is probably some less aggressive stuff out there. I'm pretty sure this is the [url="http://www.amazon.com/3M-Acrylic-Foam-4611-PRICE/dp/B000V4F1WM/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=industrial&qid=1209280438&sr=8-2"]tape [/url]I use, but I know I didn't pay this much for it.

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2008 : 08:52:55

If ya watch those decorator shows, the favorite adhesive seems to be hot glue. Goes on easy, holds purdy good, and snaps off when you want it to.

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2008 : 09:13:04

I guess I am a fan of attaching things in a boat with long lasting durable connectors. If I recall, this boat will be in charter service and the folks who charter her may not be as attentive as the owners are about being gentle on things. On my boat I'd use a few small SS screws. If you go the glue or sticky tape route let us know how well it lasted. Always new things to learn, even for this old <s>dog</s> duck.

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johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2008 : 22:25:19

Kevinmac
Kim e-mailed this to me today so I'm posting it for you.
For all designers you are not alone.

http://www.engineersedge.com/wwwboard/posts/6541.html

paulj

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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2008 : 19:41:12

Thanks Paul.

In reply to the rest of the discussion, I dunno, I was leaning away from screws because it makes (scary music) HOLES IN MY BOAT. ;-) And the advice seemed to be to drill pilot holes, and bed every one of those little suckers, which sounds like actual work, and is therefore to be avoided at all costs.

It will be (is) in charter service. But whether charter, or just me, ripping the tracks off the bulkhead would seem to be something that could happen with either screws OR glue, and both would leave gelcoat damage.

I dunno, I appreciate all the suggestions. I am still thinking of experimenting with the tape, maybe on some hidden surface in the boat, to see what it is like.

Sign me, Confused (you wouldn't think curtains we be so complicated)

Oh, P.S. the tape idea is definitely ahead of any sort of glue. I am not one that should be allowed to get near the interior of a boat with stickly liquids. The tape sounds much more controllable/neater.

To screw or not to screw, that is the question...

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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2008 : 13:31:57

That white stuff is a quick set epoxy. Thats what I would go with.

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