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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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outhaul upgrade needed?

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Don Brooks
Deckhand

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24 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/11/2008 : 21:00:45

After rigging our new loose footed main I looked at the outhaul and thought, sure would be be nice for some adjustment here. Bebobed on home plugged "outhaul" on the achive search and found a wealth of info. 4:1,2:1 Internal, external. Heck all I had was a 1/4 line tied to the end plate of the boom,lead through the clew and tied back onto its self,no adjustment at all.
First question is, what was original with a 1980 cat? Just curious. Second,Thinking of rigging a double block at the boom end and another at the main clew with a cleat mounted on the side of the boom to tie off.Anyone see a problem with this.

Don & Karen brooks
Leilla Dee #1807
Columbia City OR.

Edited by - on

Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2008 : 07:36:25

My C-25 was like yours when I bought it, just a non adjustable piece of line from the clew to the end of the boom. Last year I purchased this [url="http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=502"]outhaul

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2008 : 08:27:15

With the old footed mainsail, you could get away without a functional outhaul adjuster if you were cruising, and didn't care about really good sail trim, but now that you have gone to a loose footed mainsail, a functional outhaul adjuster is an absolute must.

Because the old footed sail was attached at the foot, all along the boom, it maintained halfway reasonable shape, even if it was too loose. But, the loose footed mainsail is unattached all along the foot, so there's nothing to help it hold its shape, and you have to be able to easily adjust it for different tensions in different wind strengths. It sounds like it'll be a minor nuisance, but most people love the ability to adjust it after they get used to it, because it really improves the behavior of the boat.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2008 : 08:40:39

I have a 4:1 outhaul led to the cabintop. It is led there for two reasons.

One, I have a bimini that is up for most of the season. With it in place, it can get difficult to adjust anything on the end or middle of the boom. (My topping lift is also led to the cabintop for the same reason).

And two, if your outhaul needs tensioning, it usually means winds (and maybe seas) are up and I'd rather adjust the outhaul sitting down instead of standing up.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2008 : 09:42:38

Don & Karen - my outhaul (also for a loose footed main) is rigged exactly as you describe (I use 3/16" line and with the multi-purchase set-up it works just fine).

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JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2008 : 11:28:51

The original fixed outhaul on my boat was slightly upgraded by a PO for the loose-footed main to include a cam cleat, but it is essentially useless for tensioning the outhaul when under way since, as Don noted, the wind force opposes increased tension.

Could have used it Saturday afternoon to flatten the main when I flew out of the Magothy River eastward into the Chesapeake Bay on a beam reach at hull speed with a north breeze of 10-12 kt with 1-2 ft waves, took a lap around the Baltimore Light, and drove home on another beam reach back to the marina.

I will replace this with an old mainsheet left behind on the boat, and try it out this spring before thinking about buying the 3 turning blocks for the gooseneck, mast step, and deck to lead the line back to a cam cleat on the cabin top. This 3:1 tackle should make it possible to tension the outhaul with the main sheeted in over the cockpit, which is what I want to do. I agree with Don that the bimini may interfere, but I want to check it out. I have long arms.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2008 : 11:40:55

An outhaul adjuster with lots of mechanical advantage is a good thing, but you can get by with less. If you're having trouble putting enough tension on it, luff the mainsail. That will take the pressure off the sail and it'll be much easier to tension it. Usually you can luff the mainsail, tension the outhaul and harden up the mainsheet within a few seconds.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2008 : 12:31:16

Steve,
That's possible only if the outhaul line is brought inboard, such as to the mast or to the cabin top.

You could just see me luff the main and then jump out onto the boom swinging over the waves to adjust the outhaul! That would be a great Buster Keaton scene, like on the railroad water tower spout!

Edited by - JohnP on 05/12/2008 12:33:12

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2008 : 12:48:23

Our main has a boltrope foot and had no outhaul adjuster when we bought Recess. I shackled a small block with becket to the clew of the sail and added a small double block on the end of the boom. A 1/4" line runs from the becket to the first sheave at boom-end, forward to the clew block, back to 2nd sheave at boom-end, then forward to a clamcleat. For now that works fine for us. With a loose-footed main, you might want a 4:1 purchase.

Edited by - on

BruceL
1st Mate

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USA
30 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2008 : 16:48:22

Guys I’m reading this Post and it’s all good and I understand running of the out hauler.
But what does the out hauler do? In making the line looser or tighter what does that do to?
The performance of the sail and or boat?
And I guess wile I'm asking the I'm pretty sure I understand the down hauler and how to ues it but might as well ask also.
Sorry I don’t mean to take the post off topic

Bruce

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2008 : 17:14:31

Bruce: With a loose-footed main (no bolt rope running in the boom slot--just a slug at the end), an adjustable outhaul is the most effective tool for making the sail fuller or flatter--fuller for more power in light winds, and flatter for less heeling force and better driving efficiency in stronger winds. Also, you ease it going downwind and trim it going upwind.

With a bolt-rope-footed main, the outhaul has limited effect because the foot doesn't compress or stretch that much in the slot, and the slot is straight, so the sail shape is relatively fixed. Since that's what I had, I used a simple 2:1 outhaul to tighten it, and left it there for the season. But I didn't race our C-25.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/12/2008 17:17:22

Don Brooks
Deckhand

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24 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2008 : 20:14:02

Derek, not sure what you mean by a "multi-purchase setup". Could you please elaborate. Thanks

Don & karen Brooks
Leilla Dee #1807
Columbia City OR.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2008 : 21:40:42

Don,

A multi-purchase system is a block and tackle term to describe the amount of mechanical advantage (3:1, 4:1,...etc) a particular system has.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2008 : 23:11:15

Some of the dingy sailors use a magic box or the multi-purchase set-up installed internally in the boom which could be adjusted from two locations. I did see this on a Cat25 which raced. My 79 came with a single block on the out-haul bracket and the line ran from the sail out-haul through the block then forward to a jam cleat near the goose neck for adjustment. Very hard to make any adjustment after the sail was sheeted. I have found that by adding a double block system the adjustment would work and then I also use the long single line to help install the sail rope foot on the boom without a lot of going back and forth to line up the the sail. I don't think I have seen any two systems the same because of need and priority of the out-haul.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2008 : 08:33:12

I like mechanical advantage. My mainsheet and outhaul are 4:1 and my vang is 6:1.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2008 : 08:58:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JohnP
 Steve,
That's possible only if the outhaul line is brought inboard, such as to the mast or to the cabin top.

You could just see me luff the main and then jump out onto the boom swinging over the waves to adjust the outhaul! That would be a great Buster Keaton scene, like on the railroad water tower spout!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">The outhaul adjuster on my C25 was near the outboard end of the boom, and I put it there because I frequently singlehanded the boat, and wanted it where I could reach it while steering. When you luff the jib while beating to windward, the boom doesn't generally swing so far outboard that you have to reach for it. When racing in strong, puffy winds, I sometimes adjusted my outhaul in or out 3-4 times during the windward leg of a race. If the wind wasn't too strong, I could adjust it without luffing the mainsail, but, if I needed to luff the sail, it was doable. You don't need to luff it all the way. You only need to luff it enough to take enough pressure off the sail to allow you to make the adjustment.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2008 : 11:13:52

Steve,

That makes sense that you just release the mainsheet enough to adjust the outhaul. Thanks.

So I'll try my 3:1 block and tackle - I got a new D-shackle for the connection to the clew. I'll just switch out the old mainsheet (50' or so) for a short length of 3/8" line I have handy.

Saturday and Sunday the [url="http://weather.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/fmtbltn.pl?file=forecasts/marine/coastal/an/anz531.txt"]NOAA forecast[/url] is for 15-20 kt. One of those days should make for an exciting test of the outhaul system!

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Don Brooks
Deckhand

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24 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2008 : 12:20:13

Steve, do you secure the line with a cleat attached to the side of the boom or with a cam?

Don & Karen Brooks
Leilla Dee #1807
Columbia City OR

Edited by - on

skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2008 : 15:07:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Don Brooks
 Derek, not sure what you mean by a "multi-purchase setup". Could you please elaborate. Thanks

Don & karen Brooks
Leilla Dee #1807
Columbia City OR.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Don,
The Catalina direct Owner's Handbook - Upgrade section has a very good diagram of the multi-purchase outhaul (ref here is where they sell the parts: http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=502)

Multi-purchase means that you put block and tackle to your advantage. In the Catalina Direct setup it goes like this:
End of the line is attached to the end of the boom
Line runs up to a double block on the end of the sail
Line runs from this block down to a single block at end of boom
Line runs from single block back to double block on end of sail
Line runs from double block back to cheek block on side of boom at the end of boom
Line runs from cheek block to cleat.

This gives you a 4:1 advantage and is easy to rig.
There are lots of other ways to do this. Check out the Harken site for additional suggestions (they love to sell you stuff

)

Multi-purchase comes in handy when the wind is piping up which is just when you want to flatten the mainsail.

Edited by - on

PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2008 : 15:50:50

I single hand a lot & this is what I do. Got part of the idea from dingy sailors. It works on our size boat. I have a 4 to 1 outhaul block and tackle at the end of the boom. The adjustment line runs forward to a block at the gooseneck then down to a swivel cam cleat near the base of the mast thence back to the cockpit. Very easy to tension or release the outhaul AND downhaul at the same time as they work together. The regular 'old fashioned' downhaul is cleated in place with no purchase just to regulate how far the boom can be pulled up when raising the main.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2008 : 08:18:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Don Brooks
 Steve, do you secure the line with a cleat attached to the side of the boom or with a cam?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Don, the last turn of the line came out of the block at the end of the boom, so I secured the line with a clam cleat about 18" forward of the end of the boom. The clam cleat was probably not well chosen, although it always held the line securely, but a cam cleat would have been a better, more secure choice. A horn cleat would have been much too time consuming to handle, especially since I re-adjusted the outhaul so often in strong winds.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2008 : 11:35:44

Here are some [url="http://www.harken.com/rigtips/outhaul.php"]outhaul diagrams [/url]from the Harken site.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2008 : 11:51:49

I used this one for a while on my '82.

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skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2008 : 15:40:58

Frank,
With this setup, what do you do when you reef the main? Do you have a second setup for the reef point clew?

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2008 : 17:18:48

Hey frank, If I have 3:1 now at your point "B" and add the eye strap and "C", won't that give me effectively 6:1? I've already got a cleat for "D".

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JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2008 : 07:42:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JohnP
 The original fixed outhaul on my boat was slightly upgraded by a PO for the loose-footed main to include a cam cleat, but it is essentially useless for tensioning the outhaul when under way since, as Don noted, the wind force opposes increased tension.

Could have used it Saturday afternoon to flatten the main when I flew out of the Magothy River eastward into the Chesapeake Bay on a beam reach at hull speed with a north breeze of 10-12 kt with 1-2 ft waves, took a lap around the Baltimore Light, and drove home on another beam reach back to the marina.

I will replace this with an old mainsheet left behind on the boat, and try it out this spring before thinking about buying the 3 turning blocks for the gooseneck, mast step, and deck to lead the line back to a cam cleat on the cabin top. This 3:1 tackle should make it possible to tension the outhaul with the main sheeted in over the cockpit, which is what I want to do. I agree with Don that the bimini may interfere, but I want to check it out. I have long arms.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I have installed an old mainsheet block and tackle as an outhaul. Here's a picture showing the situation with the boom above my white-colored bimini.

Later I reversed it to make tensioning in an aft direction easier. Now I can easily slacken the foot of the mains'l into a nice curve or flatten the foot when beating close-hauled. I suppose I'll cut off the bitter end of the line to leave less excess.

Works great! It's right above the helsman's head and quick and easy to tension.

Edited by - on

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