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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Swing Keel on Jacks

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Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/01/2008 : 15:40:32

Hello Folks,

The owner of the marina where my 25 Catalina swing keel boat will be this season is not inclined to place the boat on jacks so I can paint it; rather, he prefers to have it lifted in the hoist and suspended. He told me that sailboats with a fixed keel are able to use jacks because most of the weight is on the keel when the boat is in jacks, and the jacks merely stable to boat.

He thought it is not best to have a swing keel in jacks because then the jacks would be supporting the boat.

I thought having the boat in jacks would make it easier for me to paint the bottom becuase I can move the jacks as I need. Having it in a hoist means I must paint as much as I can around the spots where the straps will be, then paint the remainding areas. Not a major issue, but painting will take longer.

He would be willing to put it jacks if I insisted, but he suggested I research to ensure that it is completely safe and structurally sound to place a swing keel in jacks.

I look forward to reading comments from others.

Maybe I need 4 jacks on each side of the boat to simulate the trailer. I have the EZ loader.

Thanks
Deric

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2008 : 16:13:39

He's partially right... You don't want to support the entire weight, but that's why, after setting her down on the stands, you lower the keel onto a board or something. Thus about half the weight of the keel (750 lbs) is eliminated from the total supported by stands. No worse than a trailer, and no shock-loads from bouncing down the road. I've seen it done many times--generally with three stands on each side and one on the bow--more is better. Then if you have one more stand handy, you can easily move things around to paint.

BTW, he's also dead-right not to set it down on the raised keel--that's probably what damaged another forum-member's hull not too long ago.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 06/01/2008 16:21:32

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2008 : 16:51:15

I agree with the Marina guy. I painted my SK while in a sling hoist.
I painted the strap areas when I put my boat back on the trailer. So, pay attention to where the straps are relative to your trailer contact points and it should not be a big deal.
Another advantage of being on a hoist is that you will be able to attend to the bottom of your keel.

Edited by - stampeder on 06/02/2008 15:10:39

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2008 : 14:19:00

With the exception of 2 winters we used 5 stands for our Catalina 25. This was every year all winter long it is also a common occurrence for many swing keeled boats where a trailer or cradle doesn't exist. Ours has been through 60 mph winds during winter storms, 2 or three feet of snow and everything in between.

When we painted we would use a sixth stand to move the others around. And, as you probably already realized, since you have a swing keel it shouldn't be any problem catching the bottom, and you should be able to lower it 100% of the way once it is in the hoist to hit areas you missed while it was partially retracted.

The flip side - if you are only painting, and you are using a quick drying paint like VC then paint it in the slings. when you are done have them put it back in the water, slide the slings one belt width and pull it right back up and paint the rest. VC dries in about 30 seconds so there isn't time to mess around.....if you do this, don't forget to pull the masking tape before you relaunch.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2008 : 14:27:42

Not certain if this dreclty applies but I had a C22 fin keel. I was doing some trailer work and asked Catalina about boat support. They told me that the keel should support 70% of the load and the stands the remaining 30%. Told me that the hull was not designed to support the full weight of the boat using stands.

I'd suggest you use the lift and paint with VC17. With a helper you can be done and launch in about an hour.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2008 : 15:10:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">With the exception of 2 winters we used 5 stands for our Catalina 25. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Can you elaborate on this Duane. Deric has a swing keel.

It is my understanding that you do not put any of the boat's weight on a swing keel. I suspect that you would agree with Dave B's post but I think there needs to be clarity because there have been some damaged keels lately - so that when a boat owner gives specific instructions to a marina monkey, the instructions are categorical.

BTW - several years ago I had my SK in a crappy marina. I had the keel down and the boat secured to my berth on a floating dock. The berth was 8'6" wide. I was away for two weeks and when I came back the bottom of my boat was 2' above water level. My keel was supporting the entire weight of my boat. The marina operator was very impressed with my boat. I spent nearly a whole day of my weekend inspecting my hull for damage. Fortunatley there was none. When I told him he should have called me he looked at me like I was from Mars. My boat was the only sailboat in the marina.

Edited by - stampeder on 06/02/2008 15:23:21

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2008 : 16:00:43

Update:

I had started painting the boat with Micron extra -- takes about 16 hours between coats according to the instructions on the label.

I am doing the spots where the straps will be when my boat is hoisted. The barrier coat is on the entire boat. From reading the email threads here, I ascertain the following:

1) Best to have the boat hoisted if possible - - the advantages are one can get to many areas of the keel quickly.
2) Use VC 17 for fast curing - - moot point for me as I am using the Micron Extra

If using Jacks then:

3) Keep weight off the keel when resting the boat - - keel should be on ground
4) Use many Jacks on each side to displace the weight of the boat on Jacks - - More Jacks allow to move them about to paint.

When using Jacks use caution with consideration to weight distribution and Keel position.

Alas, I it may take me longer because I'll have to do all spots around the areas where the trailer wheels touch the boat, but the good news is that the owner is allowing to have the boat hoisted for a week with only one lift charge.

Timing is good because he has already placed all the boats in the slips.

This has been an excellent email thread because I have learned much. I have thought about this subject and really benefit from the knowledge and sharing of ideas.

I'll continue to post on this thread regarding my progress.

Eventually, the boat will be in the water.

Deric

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2008 : 10:21:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by stampeder
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">With the exception of 2 winters we used 5 stands for our Catalina 25. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Can you elaborate on this Duane. Deric has a swing keel.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

For 2 winters we had a cradle. When we moved the boat 54 miles east we didn't have the means or the need to move the cradle so we left it in Sandusky.

When we used the Jack Stands we had one set on either side of the keel. Plus one on the nose with a V support instead of a square support. The boat was put on the jack stands and once everything was adjusted to the right heicht the stands were chained together, as normally would be done. The keel was then lowered to the ground after the boat was set, I would guess it was lowered about 3 - 4 feet. The Keel's weight (not the boats weight itself) would rest on a block of wood that we placed on the ground.

We also had a 6th stand that we used for painting. We'd slide the stand in next to another and jack it up until it had the weight of the boat then lowered the other stand. After painting we'd raise the original Stand and move on.

Edited by - on

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2008 : 20:24:54

Hi D. Wolff,

It is good to know that it can be done. The idea of using a V shaped jack pad is a good idea.
My boat was hoisted today, tomorrow I start on those areas I missed, and then by this weekend, I should be in the water.

I'd love to have a full shop with jacks, stands, full size garage, anything that I can do on my accord is preferable.

Deric

Edited by - on

Music Man
Deckhand

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USA
7 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2008 : 15:30:26

Just did mine last summer and used jack stands, no problems except with the keel cranked up, I had to use a long handled roller to get all the way under the boat. Did the keel etc after it was back in the sling.

Edited by - on

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2008 : 17:55:31

Hello Folks,

Here is an update regarding my boat on stand inquiry at the start of this message board.

I was extremely lucky to have joined the Oneida Lake Marina located in Central New York. I was fortunate to have met the owner - - his name is Ron - - of the marina who was incredible willing to work with me to get my boat on the hoist and leave it up for a week in order to get the painting completed. Ron offered to supply plastic, offered tips, checked the painting, and let me work at a pace to get the job done well.

I have placed a few picture herein for the purpose of sharing my experience. I have to admit, the hoist made it extremely easy to get to areas that needed to be scraped and painted.

Heading to the set up the mast.

It was a great experience to learn so much and meet an owner of a marina so passionate about people and boats. If you are in the area, look me up at the marina.

Deric

Edited by - on

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