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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Outboard Weight and HP

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sfein
1st Mate

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36 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/16/2008 : 17:56:32

Hey All,

Have a 1980 25 Fixed Keel. When I bought the boat it came with a Johnson 6hp. It was a short shaft and the engine mount was attatched using two of the four required holes, very low on the transom. Sea conditions would often sink the engine in some swells and raise the engine out of the water in others. This created some scary moments but never once did the engine completely fail.

After enough being enough after a cruise last September (a 40ft powerboat came by at 15 knots in a very small rocky no wake channel)I purchased a 2000 9.9 Mercruiser.

Knowing the exiting mount was not going to work I purchased a new 4 stroke Garlick HD mount. The engines weight, 114lbs (per manufacturer, I could swear it is closer to 150), was well under what the Garlick mount could handle. To reinforce each side of the older transom I used a combination 2" thick Mahagony on the outside and 1/2" Steel plate on the inside.

This seemed like overkill, but I wanted to ensure the transom would be strong enough to handle all the additonal weight and force from the new engine.

Since I knew I would not do the best of jobs I asked the marina to install my contraption. They had already had the engine and were storing it for the winter. Everything was going fine until the asked me to sign a waiver releasing them of responsibility due to the fact that the engine was to large for the boat.

I signed the waiver cause I needed to launch the boat and needed them to get the engine mounted. They did a fabulous job and plugged the old holes, sealed the new plates. Overall nice job.

Hopefully we will be launched this weekend!

I have read many postings and checked multiple brands and the weight and hp did not seem so overweight to me.

I would love to hear some thoughts and insight? Could the engine tear off the back of the boat? Worse could it take the transom with it?

Stuart Fein
Blonde Over Blue
1980 Catalina 25

Stuart Fein
Blonde Over Blue
1980 Catalina 25
East Hampton, New York

Edited by - on

sfein
1st Mate

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36 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2008 : 17:58:01

One last thing...

The engine is controlled remotely. I have also mounted a control box in the cockpit to control the speed and gears.

The engine is a "big foot" which does add the the torque and overall weight? Was this there concern?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2008 : 19:48:08

I sail a little lake so the posts of the members of this forum are my real world education about a lot of the marine industry. One thing I have learned is that there are really good people everywhere and real dolts everywhere as well. The fellow who had you sign the waver was a dolt. The reinforcements you describe are great, the motor mount is fine and the motor is not too heavy. Had you asked I would have recommended a different motor mount but the one you bought will probably be OK unless you motor in deep swells.
his is the way I installed one on my '82.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 06/16/2008 19:58:13

sfein
1st Mate

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36 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2008 : 20:03:11

Thanks Frank,

Would love to post a picture of her but cant seem to figure out how to do it?

I also have intentions of mounting a ladder on the starboard transom. Do you think I need reinforcment there as well?

Funny thing with the engine is that I have no way to control the thing, there is no tiller. I do not do many tight manuevers under power, since I am on a mooring so I am thinking of just fixing it straight.

I have seen some contraptions welded to the engine and tiller, but I do not want to increase the strain and my tiller is already cracking.

Thanks again All

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2008 : 20:06:56

Half-inch steel backing plate?? You're ready for a rocket-propelled grenade! (I/16th might have been less stress around the edges against the relatively thin inner hull liner.) The 2000 Merc Bigfoot was indeed the heaviest outboard out there, hp for pound... I think the electric start version was more like 128 lbs. (The 1900 lb. keel makes it sort of a nit.) A 112 lb Honda rides just fine back there--the boat barely knows it's there, and a modest amount of reinforcement makes the transom amply strong. I used some Starboard inside and out. I would say it's too bad you didn't get an extra-long shaft engine (which Merc didn't make), but I won't--it's too late.

Enjoy!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 06/16/2008 20:25:56

sfein
1st Mate

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36 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2008 : 20:11:39

It really is a long shaft!!! Do not know the exact measurments but it is big.

If I could figure out how to post a picture I will. Maybe you can tell me the length?

Thanks

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2008 : 20:13:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">my tiller is already cracking<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Get a new tiller. With no tiller handle on your OB, you are up the creek when your sailing tiller is broken. Keep your old one as a spare.
There are several threads regarding posting pictures.
For starters. go to ALL FORUMS and look in 'Testing Forum'. where there is a good explaination of how to post pictures. If that doesn't cut it for you, do a search in previous posts.
Welcome to the forum

Edited by - stampeder on 06/16/2008 20:15:37

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2008 : 20:18:00

the longest shaft on the Mercs is 25" whereas on Hondas and many others, they are 27.5"

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2008 : 20:18:40

The 2000 Bigfoot came with 15" and 20" shafts, compared to the Yamaha, Honda, and (newer) Nissan/Tohatsus that offer 25" ("Extra Long"). That number is not a measurement on the engine--it's the transom height it's recommended for (on a planing hull). Most engines are a couple of inches longer than the number when measured from the inside of the clamps to the top of the anticavitation plate. For all C-25 outboard buyers in "big water", I strongly recommend one of the 25-inchers.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 06/16/2008 20:21:17

sfein
1st Mate

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36 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2008 : 20:22:10

Lets try this

Name was just put on a few days ago!!!

Edited by - on

sfein
1st Mate

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36 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2008 : 20:26:56

Should not have said tiller. Meant rudder. I have heard from many posts that this is a common problem.

Always bring it indoors in the winter but this year I left it out

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2008 : 20:28:06

Looks nice! ...and like a 20" "Long Shaft". In the lowered position, the anticavitation plate should be below waterline (ideally by 4-5" for big chop). Be sure your water intake will be reliably below waterline--including when you walk up on the foredeck.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 06/16/2008 20:30:39

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2008 : 20:43:21

according to the mercruiser website:

Shaft Length (inches) 20/25

Edited by - on

sfein
1st Mate

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36 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2008 : 20:54:21

I thought it was 25 also. I remember inquiring about this when I purchased.

I could be wrong. I will measure this weekend

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2008 : 22:04:51

The problem is the Garelicks only drop to approximately horizontal which does not drop the motor low enough. If you really got a 20" shaft motor on a Garelick mount you will have problems keeping the motor in the water. You should be able to walk to the bow at the dock with the motor running and have the motor stay in the water, that is the basic test. I put a Garhauer on my '89 because it drops lower. Your boat looks like a great ride.

Edited by - on

sfein
1st Mate

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36 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2008 : 22:09:51

Thanks - Its a treat!!

I guess we will find out this weekend.

Thanks All

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2008 : 07:56:50

One evening on a lake with bad weather. A Skeeter bass boat came past me gunned up full speed and he was essentially jumping the tops of waves getting air on occasion. He was running way to fast for conditions and his prop came out of the water it would rev up the engine with to worst sound. Eventually one of the rev up was to much and the engine stopped abruptly. They were dead in the water.

I had a Southcoast 22 sailboat that had a lot of bounce, very tender. On one occasion I had been out for a week and had to leave, crossing the bay in a storm. One I was out in the middle of the bay, If I did a run directly into the waves the prop would come out of the water as I would crest the top. As long as I would run 30 degrees off to either side I could run down the face of a wave and keep the prop in. Kinda like sailing, you hafta go with the necessary conditions.

On the cat 25 if I don't tilt the engine up with it up it will drag in the water...

So it is a compromise .. and you should know the ups and downs of either height selection.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2008 : 08:51:07

Ok Ok I'll tell you another one...

So I had another engine from another boat on the cat 25 and it was a bit short shafted. I needed to back into a dock in a storm. I needed a tank pumpout to continue repairs. I wanted to be at the dock in a position to be able to sail out. Single handed without additional help from the marina. So I approach the dock and try to back down and pull my stern in. I knew it would be hard on the engine, but I kinda wanted to see how it would behave. ( a 1976 Johnson 8hp I think.. )

The backing in such hard weather caused excessive cavitation, and I would have to lean on the top of the engine to hold it down. It moved the boat back slowly. SO my boat with this engine does not like to back in heavy weather.

The engine quit just about the time I was through with it. Blew a head. Had to sail back without power.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2008 : 08:58:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by stampeder
 according to the mercruiser website:

Shaft Length (inches) 20/25 <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That's now. Not in 2000. I promise--I was seriously in the market then.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2008 : 09:26:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">That's now. Not in 2000. I promise--I was seriously in the market then.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I dunno, we may have to check references.

Before I bought LaBarca I was looking at a 250 and C25 fin, neither of which had OBs. I did look at the Mercs because a friend of mine sells them, but I had a very bad experience with a 1970's vintage 50HP....and this website told me that length of leg was vital...so I dropped Merc off my list because the longest they had was 25". I didn't know at the time if another 2 or 3 inches was going to be critical but I didn't want to take the chance.
I also had a 9.9 Merc Kicker on a 22' powerboat and was forever changing sheer pins even though I don't recall ever hitting anything with that OB.
That said, I know lots of people with Mercs and they swear by them. My friend that sells them always likes to state that he can sell any brand he wants, he chose Merc because of factory support and local supply of all parts.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2008 : 09:38:01

Merc had a 25" 2-stroke back then, but the Bigfoot 4-stroke (an older Tohatsu engine) was only 15 & 20. I bought the so-called 25" Honda, which turned out to measure 27.75", but their spec was 25", which was called "recommended transom height."

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2008 : 12:30:35

The reinforcement sounds fine and a 9.9HP even if the Bigfoot should be fine. I believe the Cat Manual indicates going up to a 15HP is okay but an overkill as there are many that are using 8HP outboards and find that adequate.

I have a 2006 Honda 9.9HP and it is around 105-110lbs. I have a 1/2" Starboard mounted outside the transom and nothing on the inside and the mounting is satisfactory. At time that I installed the new bracket (Garhauer 4 spring) I was going to mount the Catalina Direct SS Channel on the inside of the transom but the holes did not match up for some reason. So, I skipped that step. I may still add a 1/2" starboard on the inside or take another look at the SS Channel and see what I can do with it.

Edited by - on

Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2008 : 10:41:13

These boats just don't like to back in strong wind and large waves. I tried it a few times when I first got my boat, then gave it up as a bad idea. As for your new engine mount, you could probably hook a crane to it and pick up your boat by it. Nicely done!

Edited by - on

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