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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/17/2008 : 00:31:17

I thought I was late getting in the water, but I was finally out for my shake down on 6/14 and a number of boats in the marina are still getting bottom paint.

But back to my season opener and a message for newbies still nervous about stability. Conditions were better than forecast: 10 - 12 kts., 1 -2 ft swells, sunny skies, and 80º. We sailed under those conditions with the main only while checking out various systems and then set and furled the jenny a few times, finally leaving it at 100 - 110 %. Perfect balance for the conditions with the weight of my hand enough to settle the tiller. As we headed in about three hours later, the wind picked up to about 15 and the swell was 2 -3 ft. Still about two miles out, the swell was a solid 3 with an infrequent wave closer to 4. I decided to furl the jenny, start the engine and drop the main so we could motor in and make the 2:00 bridge. As we tacked, Chris reached for the furling line and we were suddenly hit with a 25 kt gust 30º off the prevailing wind (I'm thinking it was possibly related to thermals creating an onshore breeze as we neared land). Unfortunately, as we heeled to the gust half way through the tack we took one of the "infrequent 4"s directly abeam. We went over farther than I would choose in a boat this size. I was standing on what should have been the vertical wall of the footwell and leaning against the coaming - hard to estimate while so distracted, but I would say 70 - 80º. The rudder was completely out of the water, so at least I had a free hand to dump the main. The rational side of my brain said "I know this boat and she'll come back", the emotional side was busy shouting expletives. For the new guys: with sheets free and the rudder out of the water she rounded up and got back on her feet (bit of a mess in the cabin). We had a wet but fun motor into the swell all the way to the Port Clinton channel and made the 2:30 bridge.

To add interest to our day, while in the channel we saw the Jet Express (28 kt catamaran ferry) coming up astern. We moved to the west side of the channel to give the it center and an Oday 30 made an obvious move to cross and tuck in behind us, but the J. E. didn't slow down and the Oday made a quick spin to get out of the way. The J.E. eventually slowed and let the Oday cross. I imagine the captain of the J.E. thought we were recreational boat idiots, but I thought we clearly indicated our intentions to ease his passage and was surprised that he didn't slow down a little bit to let it develop. It can always get interesting in a busy channel.

Phone calls from both of our kids, all in all an exhilarating Fathers Day.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2008 : 08:43:55

Good work--and no green water over the coaming? You put her to the test and she passed! I always knew (intellectually) that my C-25 was comfortable in more than I was...

[soapbox] Regarding ferries, they're generally loath to slow or change course--I guess it sets a bad precedent. They also probably don't want to dump people on their butts as they're walking around. For all of us sailing on "big water", one of the harder things to remember is to do a 360-degree scan every couple of minutes--looking especially for commercial traffic. Some of the big stuff is going way faster than it appears to be, and will close on you in a hurry. They'll expect you to be out of the way and won't be very forgiving if you're not. In some cases, they literally cannot stop without endangering their vessel. Be sure to know where they are well before you enter "their channel." In many areas, VHF-13 is the channel to listen to for their communications with each other and bridge operators--giving you some other clues. Around a harbor, I keep a triple-scan on 9-13-16. Around here, they do Securite' calls on 16 to announce their intentions, and talk bridge-to-bridge on 13. They've tried, but they haven't run me down yet!

[/soapbox]

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 06/17/2008 08:48:13

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2008 : 09:36:14

Great stuff Dave.
The best things about going 80 degrees is the survivors tale and the fact that when you go 33 degrees of heel in a big wind, it will be child's play.

I've boated and sailed around Vancouver Island on the west coast where there the Government Ferries are considered part of the Trans Canada Hiway. If you get in the way, you get run over.

Edited by - on

Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2008 : 11:48:47

I've had my C25 layed over on her ear more than once, it just comes with the territory when you enjoy going fast in heavy air. She'll lay over all day long if you don't free the mainsheet. She won't go belly-up unless she gets hit on the bottom with a huge wave while she's laying there. This is a nice thing to be able to tell new sailors or deckhands, though I'm not sure it always eases their minds, the thought of a boat that size laying on her side tends to make some folks nervous.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2008 : 12:55:49

I've had the bejeebers scared out of me by that same ferry line. The Channel they come into off the lake into Sandusky Bay is very narrow and very crowded. Nothing in the rule book gives them the right of way but, I sure wouldn't want that on my tombstone. Having said that, there really is no reason they can't slow down other than arrogance. I just know I'll never ride the jet express to the islands. There are alternatives.

Edited by - on

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2008 : 21:55:55

After completing bottom painting my boat, I was able to get her in the lake on 6/15/08.

There was barely any wind, we were moving along at .5 - 1 knot for 45 minutes: too long to think we were sailing. My buddy and I decided to motor out toward the middle of the lake. Normally there is more wind, and we were able to see signs of wind on the water. Sure enough the boat moved up to 3 - 3.5 knots.

After 35 minutes of sailing, we noticed dark clouds about and thought we would sail closer to the pending storm - - to catch stronger winds. Oh boy, we did.. the wind picked up so quickly it began to rock us - - oh the see was angry my friend - - , we took the Jib down and started to lower the main. The stopper knot on the main sheet got caught on the fire extinguisher located in the cabin and prevented us from moving the main down, Okay then, the main sail went back up and we sailed with the wind until it took us out of the path of the storm.

The storm passed along the south side of the lake as we stayed on the north side. We put the Jib back up and were able to sail in a reach at 6.7 knots... -- hull rated at 6.31 knots.

I was impressed with the stability of the Cat 25, and although at times the boat was tossed about in the wind and waves, my fear was of the sail becoming torn or ripped by the wind.

It was a great learning experience: we should have reefed the main, and made sure we had time to do it.

I also made straps to secure the sheets out of the cabin away from any item that may prevent the sheet from its intended use. I don't know how much we keeled over, but it was enough for me to notice the edge of the boat in the water.

At least I don't have to be concerned about ferries.

Deric

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2008 : 11:08:22

Deric: Jargon check... I assume you meant the main halyard, which hoists the mainsail (and can prevent dousing it). The sheet, which is at the transom, controls the angle of the boom.

Now, about this storm-chasing stuff...

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2008 : 11:30:36

I'm debating having Rita read this thread or not. Her biggest fear on the boat is it turning upside down & throwing her in the water. Knowing that it can take an 80 degree knockdown & survive is different from believing it can do it.

As far as ferries go, we have to contend with several every time we go out. There are the state ferries, as well as private water taxis & tour boats. None seem inclined to give way to a sailboat in my experience. We tend to sit in opposite corners of the cockpit so she can watch behind me, and I can watch behind her. We also have to deal with the north & south transit lanes for commercial shipping. Those guys are really moving, and it's very deceptive just how fast. So far the closest encounter has been with a private touring boat. They dock a couple hundred yards from the ramp we use & make beelines to & from their dock, no giving way. Very irritating if I have right of way. I try to stay well away from any ferries, taxis, tour boats or commercial shipping. With our new VHF, I will also be doing a tri-watch on 9-13-16 this year.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2008 : 11:52:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 ...None seem inclined to give way to a sailboat in my experience... no giving way. Very irritating if I have right of way.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">You don't! "Rule of tonnage." And you're right about the speed of ships--they look slow, but it's an optical illusion because of their size. And talk about not giving way...

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Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2008 : 20:09:32

Dave,

Yes, it was the halyard that got caught up on FE: not the sheet. Thank you for reading my text and responding.

I went out again today, and the halyard lines were neat and ready for use: no tangles and no mess. My custom made snaps held the halyards in place that made them easily accessible, while militating against any potential mishaps from occurring.

Anyway, we motored into the marina when we saw a storm forming, we made it back before the storm hit. We cleaned and secured the boat and 15 minutes later, the wind kicked in and thunder was about. No more chasing the storms for wind.

Every time I sail, I learn more. It is very important to not only know your boat, but your environment. Oneida Lake in NY is a very moody lake. From no wind with a glass surface to winds gusting 20-30 with waves 2-3 feet -- all within 15 minutes.

David - Is there anyway you can slowly build confidence for Rita regarding the stability of the boat? Perhaps taking her out in conditions from mild winds to stronger winds overtime?

Deric

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