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Grab rail bolts turning

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millermg
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159 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/19/2008 : 18:17:30

I put my re-finished teak back on last week, and amazingly enough, all the pieces went right back to where it was supposed to. However, for some reason when I went to put the nuts back on under the cabin deck, my starboard grab rail bolts decided they were going to turn with the nuts (not tight in the wood anymore) so I've been unable to tighten them- any of them (4 if I remember right?). Didn't happen w/ the port side rail, any of them! Anyone have an easy fix?

Much appreciated ahead of time,
Garner

1983 C25 FK/SR Finistere
Garner
Olympia WA
~/)~
~~~

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2008 : 18:20:19

Dig out the plugs up above and stick a screwdriver in and hold them.

Edited by - on

Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2008 : 18:29:47

Oh man, I hate it when you've just completed a project like that and it won't seem to go back together without damaging your work.

Aren't there two nuts on those bolts, a hex nut and a cap nut to tighten against the hex nut? You might cut slots in the ends of the bolts with a hacksaw, then hold each bolt with a screwdriver while you tighten the hex nut. Then you can just tighten the cap nut against it as you normally would. I've used this trick on other captive bolts that were not easily accessible.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2008 : 20:33:53

There may be an "easier" way. See if you can find some thin nuts in the right size & thread, put your regular nut onto the bolt, then two of the thin nuts. Tighten the first one hand tight against the regular nut, and then get the second thin nut on as far as you can (a lot of this will depend on how many threads you have to work with). Then use two wrenches to tighten the two thin nuts together capturing the bolt, then use two wrenches to to tighten the regular nut against whatever it's up against, turning the bolt with the two thinner nuts that are locked together. When the regular nut is tight as you need it, break the two thin nuts apart carefully with your two wrenches, remove them, put your cap nut on, and move on to the next bolt & repeat till you're done. If you can't find thin nuts (I don't know what their proper name is), sometimes you can catch enough threads with two regular sized ones to to this, it all depends on the length of the bolt.

This way, there's no cutting a slot in the base of the bolts, and you can get the bolt as tight as you want with little fuss.

(Edit) I guess they're simply called "[url="http://www.brkindia.com/product4.html"]thin nuts[/url]". Scroll down a bit on the right. They're also called jam nuts.

Edited by - delliottg on 06/19/2008 20:43:14

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2008 : 20:51:36

You are supposed to take the plug out. It is trivial.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2008 : 21:10:50

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> You are supposed to take the plug out. It is trivial.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Why tear up your finish if you don't have to? Using the two nuts is trivial also, and when you're done, you don't have to put new plugs in and refinish your teak. To keep from having to drill out my plugs (if I had any) I'd go so far as to cut a slot into a single nut and vise grip it to the end so I could turn the other nut down. Five minutes with a Dremel vs an hour or two shaving down new plugs, sanding, and a couple of coats of varnish.

Here's a source for the jam nuts: [url="http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/search.do?refineType=1&refineName=Nut%20Type&refineValue=Jam%20Nuts&refine=1&page=GRID&history=v2con8k6%7Ctop_category%7Cengine%7Eadwords%25216456%5Ekeyword%7Ejam_nut%5Epage%7EGRID%5EcategoryName%7ENuts%5EcategoryId%7E189%5Euser_att_name0%7EUserType%5Euser_att_value0%7ENewUser"]Jamestown Distributors[/url].

Edited by - delliottg on 06/19/2008 21:13:17

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2008 : 21:56:38

I had the problem with just one bolt. First I put a little WD-40 on the threads. Then I locked a vice-grip to the nut and pulled down hard as I tightened it, so I was pulling the bolt head tight against the wood. That did it. If it hadn't, I was going to cut a slot in the bolt. (A Dremmel makes that pretty easy.)

Edited by - on

millermg
Navigator

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159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2008 : 00:14:17

Thanks guys. Frank, as always, has come up w/ the RIGHT way of fixing it- but after about 40 coats of Deks Olje I REALLY don't want to patch a plug if I can avoid it. So I will try some of these easy ways out, and hope for success!

Garner

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2008 : 08:20:41

I had the same problem just last month. I did it by drilling out the plug and fashioning a new one. I have to admit though, the plugs are still in my toolbox and I am set to put them back in this weekend. I just have to sand again and refinish the handrail when done. On mine it was the front screw on each handrail, so I have only 2 to replace.

I think, that I will use the vise grip and pull down method next time as Dave suggests.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2008 : 08:27:33

I haven't had to do this project yet so I may be way off base but would it be possible while you had the rails off to put a drop or two of epoxy around the threads where they come out of the wood or maybe inject it up into the wood along the threads to help hold them in place? Maybe even Locktite?

Just a thought.

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cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2008 : 08:32:00

Gary, I had considered that when I had mine off, but since I had only two that were a problem, I elected to remove the plug and put in a new one. If I take them off again, I might very well do what you suggest.

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Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2008 : 10:21:33

I'm getting ready to do this again also, I've had problems with over-tightening in the past, where a bolt splits the wood as you tighten it down, the ends of the grabrails seem to be prone to this. Maybe I should just replace the grabrails this time, they are 23 years old.

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skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 16:01:24

Interesting. On my 78 there no "bolts" at all. The grab rails attach through the cabin top with screws that come up from inside.
I might offer a suggestion to think about if you, or anyone who has this set up, needs to take out the plugs on top. If you are going to take out the plugs you might want to replace the bolds with bolts long enough to go through a second guard rail mounted on the inside of the cabin roof directly under the outside set. You would probably only do this on the starboard side. Hand holds down below are always nice to have.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 16:57:22

Take the grab rail back off and pour a little varnish along the screw and the wood. The varnish will hold the screw for you once it dries.
Clean the threads of the screw with a little wire brush until the nut will go on the threads easily and then re-install.
I wouldn't take the plugs out either.

Edited by - on

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