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Bertha's coming

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5376 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/06/2008 : 23:01:09

Not to get all us east coasters into a froth, but according to the NWS, Bertha will be knocking on somebody's door next Friday or Saturday

One path is sending her to SC, another to NC, still one more says the Bermuda high will develop a cold front on Wednesday or Thursday and send Bertha closer to NJ, NYC and Long Island.

In past years, I've pulled my 16 foot day sailor out of the harbor and up onto the trailer a few days before the 'Cane hit home, but this year, I cannot do that. I suppose I could ask our marina yard guy to short-haul the boat for an "inspection" this Thursday, and take his time getting her back into the water.

What's the established wisdom on Hurricanes and Marinas? Do they get completely mangled up? Boats, docks, pilings all mashed together? Is it better to find a quieter spot way up the river, a "hurricane hole" protected from NE winds? I've got a great little sand-bar in mind that's protected on the NE by a 200 foot hill.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3465 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2008 : 05:55:21

I am located a bit inland (on the Potomac River/Wash DC area) and so I plan to do nothing. I have other concerns right now in that i start a beach vacation this saturday in the Outerbanks, NC. I have been following the track of this hurricane (was a storm till yesterday). Four models of it's path have been developed and it is still too early to predict if it will hit land. Most of the predicted paths indicate it will veer more north and miss land but you never know about these things.

When I bought my boat over 2 years ago, it was from a guy who kept it at same marina as I am presently located. I was in a predicament back then. I bought the boat, the PO cancelled his insurance and the marina operator wanted proof of insurance or I had to remove the boat from the marina ! Boat US wanted to wait a few days before approving my insurance because there was a storm/heading toward us at that time (similar to Bertha). The marina operator and I pondered the situation...and what was going thru my mind at the time was ...many years ago there was that garbage barge being shuttled back and forth in the area between Connecticut, New York and therabouts because no one wanted the garbage. I felt kind of like same situation...how could I reomve my boat and be stuck out there in "No Man's Land". The Marina operator decided to call Boat US and Boat US then decided (maybe coincidentally since the storm direction may have been more clear by then) to approve my insurance. The operator took some photos of my boat, sent it to Boat US and I gave them my credit card number - I was then okay to stay ! Storm/hurricane turned out to be a non- event. It went out to sea !

I hope same is true this time around since we are scheduled to travel to the Outerbanks this Saturday morning !

If a hurricane hits in vicinity of your marina - the boat probably still be okay depending on velocity and speed of the hurricane. Use more lines to secure at dock. But hard to predict. My concern with relocating and anchoring would be that the anchors could very well drag and then be worse off than in the marina. Past experience may not be a good guide since each hurricane's characteristics are different. I am curious as to what others have to say about this as well.

Edited by - OLarryR on 07/07/2008 06:00:29

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5376 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2008 : 07:41:43

Larry - glad things turned out ok with your boat.

The other concern I have with anchoring in a hurricane hole is as you pointed out - the anchors could drag and the boat goes adrift. It could wind up on rocks, or in somebody's back yard.

The question then becomes what defines your boat as being adrift and disabled, so that it comes under the rules regarding marine salvage?

From what little I've read on this topic, as soon as your boat is unattended and not secured to a dock, a slip, a mooring or an anchor it is fair game for salvage claims.

Could this really be true? For example, if a major storm came through and pulled a bunch of boats off their moorings, could an enterprising "pirate" come along afterwards with a crew and claim the boats of his or her choice?

If true, I'd imagine this would be <i>the</i> major problem after a catastrophic storm.

Edited by - on

KD4AO
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2008 : 08:03:15

This mornings report looks like Bermuda next Saturday. Do you folks up the east coast expect much weather from it if it stays on that course? I use this site to watch the predictions and current location. [url="http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/index.shtml/"]National Hurricane Center[/url]

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2008 : 08:46:07

Timely discussion--the season has started! Bruce, my concern in your case is your present berth--against the side of a dock at the end of the marina. The easterly wind and waves on the back side of a cyclonic storm will be bashing you against the dock. If some other boats elect to get hauled for an approaching storm, maybe you could get into one of their slips where you could tie yourself off the docks with redundant bow, stern, and spring lines. Your marina should be anxious to provide the best practical solutions for everyone there.

BoatUS has some interesting discussions on this, that have appeared in their magazine and should be accessible on their site. There are no silver bullets, but their statistics are worth seeing, and their tips are more valuable than mine.

Edited by - on

glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2008 : 10:17:27

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">From what little I've read on this topic, as soon as your boat is unattended and not secured to a dock, a slip, a mooring or an anchor it is fair game for salvage claims.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I do not pretend to know salvage law, but when I lived in Galveston many years past, I used to run on the beach around dawn to avoid the heat. One morning I found a 25' sailboat on its side in the surf and all hatches locked. I immediately called the CG and Sheriffs office...both said "leave it" and that even if I did salvage it, the owner could not only reclaim the boat with no obligation to compensate me for my efforts but could hold me liable for any damages they might claim I inflicted on the boat. Something about offshore vs. nearshore rules??? I did leave the boat but within just 2-3hrs sand had filled the cockpit enough to anchor the boat to the bottom and the breakers were tearing the deck off. Real sad.

A more amusing story.... in the late 70's - early 80's? the longshoreman refused to load wheat on Russian ships for most of a summer. As such the Russian ships were stranded at anchor offshore of Galveston Island for months on end. One night some crewmen "borrowed" 1-2 of their ships lifeboats and secretly rowed into town to have a few beers. A good time was had by all but when they tried to get back to their ship, they discovered someone had "salvaged" the lifeboats they had left on the beach. This obviously was an awkward situation, but fortunately the local CG had a sense of humor and gave them a lift back to their ship.

Edited by - glivs on 07/07/2008 11:30:38

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2008 : 12:30:29

I've got my boat docked in a small marina across from the outer banks on the mainland side of the Pamlico Sound in NC.

I was looking at the marina lease agreement and it says that once a hurricane warning is given for the Pamlico Sound area that I have 10 hours to remove my boat from the dock. This is to prevent damage to the marinas docks caused by boats.

There is a great hurricane hole near by, actually right in front of my property I'm trying to get a house built on.

Edited by - on

Kendall
Navigator

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USA
146 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2008 : 15:49:34

In florida, it is unlawful for a marina to require you to remove your boat in the event of a hurricane. In my opinion it is in the marina's best interest because who cares how pretty your docks are if there arent any boats to occupy it? One of florida's smarter boating laws.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2008 : 20:24:07

Larry: Looks like you're not taking the hit, but watch that undertow from Bertha's wake! (A good friend and her little grandson were swept out from a Rhode Island beach last week--had to be rescued!)

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3465 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2008 : 22:36:39

Dave,

My dilemma is that I like to go in the water late in the day when the sun is much lower ...shark feeding time.

I'll warn the others about concerns regarding undertow ! Thanks !

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3465 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2008 : 05:10:49

The track of Bertha by all models now indicate it is going to slow in speed toward the USA and then track more northerly. if this holds true, it will not hit the east coast. The hurricane center is still indicating it may start acting erratically in the next 2-3 days before it alters it's heading more northerly and so there is still some uncertainty as to if it will follow what is now predicted.

I need to get a weather job....these guys cover all bases !

Edited by - on

SCnewbie
Navigator

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166 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2008 : 06:47:29

I did a quick check of salvage laws recently, Someone salvaging has to prove that you don't intend to return or collect the boat. I have a sign in mine now that says, if found please call with my name and number. My bigger concern is someone gets it and tries to sell it to some unsuspecting person. The Coast Guard recommended it when it broke free once. My plan in Charleston is to pull my boat for any storm expected to exceed catagory 2. That is when a lot of the marina's will start hauling boats around here. My insurance doesn't require me to but I would rather enjoy my boat the rest of the year than have to file insurance paperwork.

Edited by - on

Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2008 : 08:09:27

The latest...

AT 0900Z THE CENTER OF HURRICANE BERTHA WAS LOCATED NEAR LATITUDE
21.4 NORTH...LONGITUDE 53.3 WEST WITH MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS NEAR
105 KTS...120 MPH...195 KM/HR.

Edited by - on

Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2008 : 17:18:53

Sorry, I really should have just posted this, so you all can check status anytime you want:

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/graphics_at2.shtml?5day

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5376 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2008 : 22:38:14

Dave -
You are right about my position on the dock - I take the brunt of the Nor'easters whenever they blow through, pushing me up against the dock. I've been through three 30+ kt blows and it ain't pretty.

Add to that the river tidal current also pushes the boat onto the dock on the stronger, outgoing tides. 3.1kts!

I've purchased extra fenders to keep me out of trouble and they've been doing a good job. I've got a total of 7 fenders.

Last year, during the first one in mid-August, one of my dock mates kept replacing one of my fenders after it repeatedly worked its way up from between the boat and the dock. She was very persistent and I bought her and her husband dinner afterwards.

It took me quite a bit of elbow grease to remove the rub marks from the hull. But they came out fine.

With winds potentially 4X stronger in a hurricane (and to the fourth power in terms of wind force), I would be looking for another slip.

I may still consider moving to the hurricane hole if any major storms are forecast. I'll invest the $10 for a sign.

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