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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

135% Genoa

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/10/2008 : 21:59:16

Well, I bought a new 135% Genoa over the winter. I installed it when I launched but, alas, I had motor problems and didn't sail much until very recently. Well, I wanted to report on the sail.

IT'S GREAT!!!!

I've only sailed with it 4 or 5 times but every time I unfurl it, it feels as if there's this big hand grabbing my forestay and pulling the boat forward. The acceleration is palpable. My old 110% would accelerate the boat but it took a while. Tonight it took me from 3 to 5 knots before I got the sheet secured. I was out with a dockmate and he was taking pictures of my boat. He had less sail up so I was intentionally trying to slow down while keeping the sails full for the camera. For a minute or two I was backwinding the main with the genny and still moving at 4+knots in winds less than 10knots

Oh, yeah, it looks way cool too with it's Forest Green UV panel.

I bought the Rolly Tasker sail at [url="http://www.nationalsail.com/"]National Sail Supply[/url] and the price was right.

John Russell
1999 C250 SR/WK #410
Bay Village, Ohio
Sailing Lake Erie
Don't Postpone Joy!

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2008 : 22:17:40

Hey John, if you don't mind me asking how much was the sail including the UV panel? I'm thinking of going the same route.

I also notice that they only list Catalina 25. Is that what you use for a C250 as well?

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 07/10/2008 22:26:14

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2008 : 22:34:28

I ordered a C250 sail by calling Dirk at their number in Florida. The pricing was the same as the C25 Furling Deluxe Genoa but is was specifically labeled as a C250 sail. I didn't have to provide any measurements, they had them available at the loft. I think it was $30 cheaper last winter but not sure. They delivered on time without any hassle.

From their website:
Catalina 25 std 135% Roller Furling Deluxe Genoa
5oz dacron. Includes Sunbrella UV protection strip on leech and foot in your choice of color(starboard or port side) and luff tape to suit your existing furling system. Comes standard with leech line with cleat, tell tales and sail bag.
Price: $750.00

Edited by - on

txbigfoot
Navigator

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USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2008 : 23:57:37

Is anyone interested in selling their OEM furling sail?? Mine is getting weathered and prob time to replace.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2008 : 23:59:00

I wonder if I should go with a Spinnaker, or a 135% with whisker pole. My 110% is pretty awesome upwind, my race club can't believe how high I point. I tend to cut in front of my competitors that pass me earlier with a spinnaker simply due to the fact that I point so high.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2008 : 07:10:25

I struggled with the choice between a 135% and a 150%. We have some very light wind which would warrant the 150% but the majority of the time, I decided, I would be furling that sail down to better manage the wind. Hence, the 135% decision. I think I'll get an assym/drifter for the really light wind days. Unfortunately, the dramatic difference I've experienced with the new headsail makes me think that maybe my main is also due for replacement. So that might happen before the drifter. We'll see. In any event, it won't be this year.

Edited by - on

pa-sailor
1st Mate

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USA
67 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2008 : 19:38:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 I ordered a C250 sail by calling Dirk at their number in Florida. The pricing was the same as the C25 Furling Deluxe Genoa but is was specifically labeled as a C250 sail. I didn't have to provide any measurements, they had them available at the loft. I think it was $30 cheaper last winter but not sure. They delivered on time without any hassle.

From their website:
Catalina 25 std 135% Roller Furling Deluxe Genoa
5oz dacron. Includes Sunbrella UV protection strip on leech and foot in your choice of color(starboard or port side) and luff tape to suit your existing furling system. Comes standard with leech line with cleat, tell tales and sail bag.
Price: $750.00

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

pa-sailor
1st Mate

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USA
67 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2008 : 20:00:48

John,
Newbe this year with a C250WK (04). I assume I have a standard jib 110, how can I tell for sure?
Thanks

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2008 : 20:21:44

Bob,
if you have a 110% jib, the clew will just reach as far as the shrouds when close hauled.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

Paul

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2008 : 21:29:39

Paul's right, of course, but if you want to be technically sure, measure from the clew to a point on the luff at which you form a 90 degree angle with a line extending from the clew to the luff. Compare that with the distance from the mast to base of the forestay. That comparison is written in the percentage of that distance. So, a 110% headsail has a LP (Line perpendicular) measurement that is 110% of the distance from the mast to the base of the forestay.

If you have typical original equipment, it's likely you have a 110%.

Welcome to the forum. Where are you in PA? My Admiral is from the Harrisburg area.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2008 : 04:13:02

John,

We have the same year boat with the shrouds mounted on the far edges of the boat. With my 110% I have my sheets inside the shrouds and it's great for close hauled. I'm guessing that with the 135% you would need to put the sheets outside the shrouds? How is your upwind ability in this case? I'm very close on buying a 135% mostly for racing hence the importance on going upwind.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 09/05/2008 04:13:25

SCnewbie
Navigator

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166 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2008 : 04:24:24

I too am interested in how I should run my sheets if I were to get a 135% genoa. My shrouds are alon gthe far outside rail. Would I basically install another track further aft so the sheets can reach around the outside of the shrouds? My boat has a 100% Jib that the previous owner had made for the boat. It is very nice but it is too small in my uneducated opinion for the main that I have.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2008 : 14:50:19

My sheets are outside of the shrouds. The track car is nearly all the way back for any point of sail. I'm still learning to get the full advantage of the 135 but I think it was a good investment. I don't think I got any closer to the wind last year with my 110%. I'd guesstimate 30 degrees or so. It holds shape well when furled to about 100% when the wind picks up. I had some problems with lee helm but, thanks to our friends here, I resolved that.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2008 : 15:39:03

Thanks John. 30 degrees is pretty much what the 110% does so no major difference there except maybe more speed going updwind. I round up pretty easily in stronger winds with my 110% where I have to constantly adjust my main so not to round up. Is that what you mean by lee helm, and how did you resolve this?

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2008 : 16:43:22

From Answers.Com

"Slight lee helm is sometimes hard to detect, especially on sailboats with balanced or semibalanced rudders. Test your boat by sailing with the apparent wind on the beam in a fresh breeze under all plain sail. Take your hand away from the tiller or wheel and see what happens. If the boat starts to head away from the wind, she has lee helm—in other words, to make her go straight, you have to hold the helm to leeward.Lee helm is dangerous and needs to be corrected, not only because it slows a boat down, but also, more importantly, because it encourages uncontrolled jibes.The causes of lee helm, like those of weather helm, are many and complex, involving both hull design and sail rig. Many boats that have slight lee helm in light weather will lose it when a rising wind makes them heel.Flat-cut sails can cause lee helm, too, and so can a mast that is positioned too far forward of the underwater center of lateral resistance.It’s not usually easy to cure bad lee helm on a boat with a fixed keel. A fuller cut mainsail helps a little, and raking the mast aft helps a little more, but the real solution would probably involve moving the entire mast aft, with all the complications that can cause. In any case, it’s a job for a qualified naval architect."

Edited by - on

SCnewbie
Navigator

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166 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2008 : 08:37:24

I have a ton of weather helm with my 100% jib. It just isn't enough to bal;ance the main. I think I will start looking for a new 135% genoa to replace it with this winter. Just to clarify, you have the shrouds that come down to the outside rail of the boat and your jib tracks are inboard of those correct? You just put the cars aft and run the sheets outside?

Edited by - SCnewbie on 09/07/2008 08:38:31

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2008 : 10:13:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by SCnewbie
 ... You just put the cars aft and run the sheets outside?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Yup

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2008 : 11:10:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by SCnewbie
 I have a ton of weather helm with my 100% jib.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Is that a 110% jib?

We found that tightening the backstay made a great improvement in reducing weather helm.

Paul

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2008 : 11:30:26

I think the key here is a properly tuned rig. The thing that corrected my lee helm (the opposite of weather helm) was tightening my backstay.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2008 : 22:43:56

Low winds you want a looser backstay (so the forestay is looser). In higher winds you want the backstay tight.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 09/11/2008 22:44:32

SCnewbie
Navigator

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166 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2008 : 12:06:07

Sorry I didn't see I was asked a question earlier. My jib is 100% not 110%. The PO had a local loft make it and I guess he figured that was what he needed. It is a nice sail. Its just too small to balance the unreefed main. He never sailed with it or the new main he had made.

Edited by - on

SCnewbie
Navigator

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166 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2008 : 12:08:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by SCnewbie
 ... You just put the cars aft and run the sheets outside?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Yup
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

how far back to your jib tracks run? I'll have to look next time I am out on the boat but I think mine are maybe even with the upper shroud. I have a 95 and am wondering if one of the design changes was longer tracks.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2008 : 14:20:19

I'll have to look but, I think the aft end of the track is about 2-3 feet forward of the deck mounted winches.

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Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
855 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2008 : 18:11:13

SCnewbie,

Yes the jib tracks have changed since 1995.
Look for the pictures of the jib tracks on my 2005 model --> [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13441"]Leading the genoa sheets[/url]

Russ

Edited by - on

SCnewbie
Navigator

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166 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2008 : 19:52:14

Yes those come way further aft. Looks like I will probably need to try and replace the tracks if I am going to get a 135%

Edited by - on

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