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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/20/2008 : 11:54:37

With hurricane season starting to blossom I have several questions.

1. Obviously the ideal situation would be to trailer it out of the area but since I can't find a trailer is it better to have it pulled and placed on stands in the most protected area as possible or would leaving it in the water be better. Fixed Dock or floating (floating I presume)?
2. What is the best/preferred method for securing a boat to the docks.
3. What type and size lines are appropriate for our boats?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - on

Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2008 : 13:44:43

If you are sure you can have your boat taken out of the water, it's going to be safer on a stand. Either way you'll want to drop the mast and secure it. If the boat is on the water, I would take the mast ashore so it doesn't pose a risk to other boats. Use the largest line that will fit into your cleats, use your normal four point attachment to the dock, or two if you're side-tied. Rig springer lines fore-to-aft and aft-to-fore to dampen movement. Don't forget to use fenders and bumpers. It can be helpful to have a float actuated bilge pump in case she starts taking on water, be sure your batteries are charged. Whether the boat is on a stand or in the water, take everything off the deck that might flog in the wind, including running rigging. Close and lock hatches, lazarettes, fuel compartment.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2008 : 14:35:23

Here are a couple of pictures taken after Hurricane Francis in September 04 of how PennyII was secured. If I had the option I would have taken her out of the water and locked her down.

She started with 14 lines. Two 1/2" on each cleat. One from each side from the mast forward and two each from the winches. You can see one line is missing from the starboard front cleat in the first picture and both are missing from the aft starboard cleat. All three snapped. You can also see were the wind knocked one of the lighting clips of the upper stay chain plate. They are 4.0 wire hooked to a 12 foot 1/2" copper rod driven into the lake bed
I took everything off the boat possible, hardened the uppers and back stays three turns each and the lowers six. The lowers take more because I run a looser rig than normal. I then locked and taped all the hatches. Took a lot of duct tape. The tape was a pain getting off after six days, but no water go in the boat except through were the wheel steering comes through the transom. Water in the bilge from this was an inch below the floor. Since then I have added a auto bilge pump so that should handle the problem.
Normally the boat rides with the tide from the top to the rub rail even with the finger dock walkway. Just an idea of the additional water.

Edited by - frog0911 on 07/20/2008 14:37:44

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2008 : 19:14:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stardog
 If you are sure you can have your boat taken out of the water, it's going to be safer on a stand.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Not so. Marinas won't pull boats out of the water when a storm is coming to put them on jack stands. The boat is infinitely more vulnerable on stands.

Take all your sails off. Double all your mooring lines, and make them as long as possible -- tie them to a farther dock if possible -- to compensate for tidal surge. Take the outboard and rudder off. Make sure your insurance is paid.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2008 : 22:26:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Even Chance
 Not so. Marinas won't pull boats out of the water when a storm is coming to put them on jack stands. The boat is infinitely more vulnerable on stands.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I don't think [url="http://www.boatus.com/hurricanes/"]BoatUS[/url] concurs. A lot has to do with the location and elevation of the boatyard versus the characteristics and location of the docks. Read their stuff and talk to your marina. There are no absolutes--just relative risks.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 07/20/2008 22:27:31

crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2008 : 11:18:34

In 1989 my boat was in the yard on jack stands for repair when Hurricane Hugo hit Puerto Rico. I was knocked off one of the stands and suffered a 6 foot long scratch in my bottom paint. I don't think that would have happened, but somebody "liberated" one of my jack stand chains. The marina charged $500 to stand me back up. There were a few other boats knocked off their stands, but the damage to them was nothing compared to the damage to many of the boats which remained in the water. On the other hand, those were concrete piers. I will also add that in Hugo Puerto Rico was on the navigable side of the storm and did not get the full force of a major hurricane. It was funny, but immediately after the storm the reports were of 90 mph winds in San Juan (about 40 miles from my marina). Within a few months those winds had increased in velocity to about 120. By now they are probably in the thousands.

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2008 : 12:09:50

Dave, I think we're in competition for the "Chief Curmudgeon" title. As I read the Boat US link you sent, it seems to me to say that IF your boat is on stands, then it needs to be anchored down in pretty significant ways -- certainly more securely than just having your jack stands chained to each other. I don't know of any marinas in our area prepared to do that kind of anchoring.

When Hurricane Isabel was approaching the Chesapeake, my marina owner was dropping all the blocked boats in the yard into the water, and telling the owners to deal with them. My boat was fine -- although the piling on the south side of my boat pulled out, the pier across the alley stayed intact and my long bow lines to that pier allowed "Even Chance" to rise with the tide.

The fuel dock and pier to the south of my boat were destroyed by the tidal surge. All the boats in the water in this pic are aground; the black powerboat is on a trailer, brought in after the storm; the other powerboat landed in the parking lot and has been righted:

The marina is now installing floating docks, which is the best protection against tidal surge.

I've now been through three hurricanes: one while living on the east side of the Chesapeake, tied to the end of a T-dock; two on the west side in a marina slip. I'm no expert, but here are my recommendations, tempered by observation and experience:

1. If you can move your boat to a hurricane hole (or trailer far away from the impact zone), that's the best option. If you are anchored, use more than one BIG anchor, lots of chain and scope.
2. Floating docks are preferable to fixed.
3. If neither of the above is available, point your boat as close to NE as possible, remove sails, outboard, and rudder; double and lengthen all lines (including springs).
4. Dog all hatches and ports down as well as possible, stuff cracks with rubber insulation or the like.
5. Make sure your insurance is paid.
6. Before you leave, pat your boat and thank her for having been a good boat.
7. Remember, it's just a boat.

Edited by - Even Chance on 07/21/2008 14:17:37

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2008 : 15:54:16

Well my marina just made up my mind about moving.

Everytime I've had a problem that needed to be corrected (broken brace under my finger pier that was about to collapse (took three complaints over several months to get resolved), boards in the dock that are so old they have splinters that are literally 3" long and 1/4" in dia. (still haven't replaced the boards)), loose pilings at the end of my finger pier, etc... they've made me feel like I was worthless to them. I called this morning asking about getting into one of the floating slips because of the storm coming. The have two (2) 50' slips available at this time (obviously way more than I need) but they couldn't give one up until all of the big cruisers had a shot at taking one because they are under covered docks. I understand that those boats could get crushed against the roof during a storm surge but while discussing the subject further they said that any slip moves are first come first served. When I pointed out that I was calling before anyone of the big cruisers they came back and said they were sorry but that was they way it was.

I was more than willing to pay the additional slip fees for a slip that was more than I need. It's cheaper than having the boat damaged by surge.

I started calling around and found several other marina's that were more than happy to put me on floating piers that are much newer and the one I will probably go with is rated as a Hurricane Hole. It's built where the slips are in a basin that's surrounded on all sides by a 10' berm that's above a 5' wall, has new docks going in now, all docks are floating with a 12-15' vertical range of motion. The only opening to the outside is about 40' wide channel that is long and narrow. The marina sits off to the side of that channel.

The people I spoke with are very friendly and courteous (unlike the other marina) and offered more information than I was asking?

And they have a swim up bar to boot!

My plan is to move to this new marina for the storm and then back to my old one until my lease is up.

Sorry for the rant! I hate working my tail off to pay for things and then get indifferent treatment by the people I'm paying my hard earned money to. It's pretty obvious that my current marina has been taking in everyone's money for many years without putting anything back into the place. Now that they have numerous newer marinas taking their business the've decided to spend a few bucks on the grounds but not the docks.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2008 : 16:12:11

Gary, there's an old song... "It's Time to Go."

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2008 : 07:52:54

A boat on jack stands will pump the mast during the storm which will eventually cause the vessel to fall over! safer in the water in my opinion. Also, take the boom down. Take the headsail off of the roller furling. Remove anything that will increase windage.

sten

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Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2008 : 07:54:27

No matter which way you go, don't assume the marina is going to do the very best they can in securing your boat. The marina is going to be way-over-worked in trying to take care of all of the other boats also in their care and things may be over-looked. Show up after your boat is supposed to be secured and make sure you are satisfied everything is in order. Bring your own chain and line just in case.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1776 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2008 : 16:26:55

Great question -- In '85 (named huricane) and again in '06 (no-name hurricane force storm) my sailboats (first was a full keel 20 footer, second was the Cat 25) rode out the storms on moorings with aplomb. I was told to expect severe damage and, in fact, in the '06 event in our "cove" over $2mm of lost sailboats were strewn on the rocky shores and beaches. In both storms mine came through just fine with precautions being removing all sails but keeping spars on, and removing any movable weight (e.g. outboard, stove, etc) Then in '95 my 20 footer was safe and sound (I thought) under snug winter cover on stands when the infamous "no-name" or "perfect" storm hit. The tide raised the boat off the stands (actually as I had secured the cover on part of the satand the water lifted the boat but the stands came along)and pounded the keel two feet into the parking lot -- with the four stands going equal distance through the hull and the bow being "swaged" into the club-house -- but -- mine was the only canvas cover to be intact!.. So, nothing is certain in hurricane force storms. Wheny ou think you are vulnerable, lady luck may prevail however if you think you are safe, "fughgettaboudit" you are equally vulnerable!

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2008 : 18:01:45

Well, we dodged a bullet. The storm went 250+ miles Southwest of Houston.

I went over and looked at the new marina Monday. It's really pretty and is a first class operation.

BTW, the wife and mother-in-law of a guy I work with are riding out Dolly. Early this afternoon the eye went right over their weekend home near S. Padre Island. As of that time a 100+ year old oak tree had been toppled onto part of his boathouse knocking that part of it down. Some very expensive floodlights had been ripped off the side of the house and a lot of tree limbs are down but they are safe, scared but safe. He had strongly urged them to leave yesterday but they didn't feel it was going to be that bad. (My co-worker was working with me today here in Houston while his wife is riding out the storm). This afternoon she told him they should have left.

Edited by - GaryB on 07/23/2008 18:03:52

glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2008 : 18:38:46

GaryB,
Given past data ([url="http://www.usatoday.com/weather/huricane/history/walicia.htm"]Alicia[/url]) you would do well do prepare for the storm surge in your part of the Bay should a storm hit. We were living in Galveston at the time...lot of memories from that storm...wouldn't do it again.

Edited by - on

Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2008 : 14:23:07

A lot of people get hurt or go missing because they "feel it's not going to be that bad". Hurricanes don't always do what is expected and Dolly is a pretty good example. She stalled completely when she was expected to run ashore and sat there for another half day building up from just barely hurricane status, to category 2, then she moved onshore very slowly, moving in the "wrong direction". She was supposed to go west and has continued northwest for the last two days. I watched the NHC forecast for a week and the cone of probability was always to the west and sometimes even west-south-west. Today it still shows to the west.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2008 : 20:36:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by glivs
 GaryB,
Given past data ([url="http://www.usatoday.com/weather/huricane/history/walicia.htm"]Alicia[/url]) you would do well do prepare for the storm surge in your part of the Bay should a storm hit. We were living in Galveston at the time...lot of memories from that storm...wouldn't do it again.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My idea of preparing for the storm surge is finding a trailer to buy and getting the heck out of dodge!

Unfortunately I've been unable to find a trailer so far but I'm still looking.

I did find out that South Shore Harbor Marina is considered a hurricane hole and is very well protected from the waves and somewhat by the wind. That will be my first place of refuge when a storm is coming.

As I mentioned above all the docks are floating and can travel up to about 15' above MLLW. At that height that whole part of town will be part of Galveston Bay and it won't matter anymore.

Edited by - GaryB on 07/24/2008 20:37:31

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