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$5.95/gallon: Waterskiing, Anyone?

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MartinJW
Navigator

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USA
241 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/19/2008 : 02:11:25

Last week, my wife and I spent 4 days cruising around Lake Tahoe. It was hot, and there was little favorable wind, so we spent way more time than usual motoring (Honda 9.9HP outboard pushing our C-250) to reach prime swimming and hanging-out spots. I think there were several days during which we'd motor well over 4 hours each day, although we're usually happy to putt along at 3-4 kts.

At some point I realized that we were getting low on gas, so I pulled up to a fuel dock in Homewood, CA. I extracted the little 6-gallon tank and handed it to the attendant. 20.05 USDollars, 3.369 gallons, and 5 minutes later, we were topped off and ready to leave the dock.

As I was re-connecting and securing our tank, I noticed an uncomfortable looking fellow next to us, also filling his boat with gasoline. His was a nice little ski boat. The attendant was asking him if the tank was nearing the half-way mark, but he seemed to be distracted and didn't answer. As we pulled away, I was able to read the total price on the gas pump:

$262 and still spinning

C25/250 Int'l Ass'n Member
2008 C-250 WK #973
"Bluebell"
Lake Tahoe, CA/NV

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Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 07:40:21

Ouch! This makes me very happy I sail. Even the small power boats get poor gas mileage, I can't image the costs incurred by some of the larger smokers here on Lake Travis.

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 08:40:03

On the other hand, on our little, no as popular lake, we now have much less powerboat and fishing traffic. A mixed blessing. I means less wakes to do battle with, and full ownership of th elake at the expense of a much smaller safety net, and an economic ouch! on the lake. A few more marinas were sold to condo developers as a response to gas prices hurting business this season.

There are forecasts that soon the only marinas on the lake will be the municipal ones. Slips that can accept sailboats are already on 3 to 5 year waitlists, and with marinas disappearing soon there will be no where for us.

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 12:30:37

Because of gps now it is easier to do the numbers.

My power boat runs a 225 hp single outboard on a 22 ft and gets about 2.5 mpg. at about 34 mph. 70 gallons onboard and it costs Money to fill. We really never did much "runnin around".

I was talking with one owner on Lake Eufaula and he runs twin 200 hp outboards and said they were getting about 1.7 mpg.

I'd still rather live onboard than spend $100 a night in a Hotel. Now I spend most of my time on the Catalina. I always did like the feeling of puttering around slow on a sailboat, especially at night.

Whoo Hoo for the 3.5 gallon gas tank!

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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 12:47:44

Similar experience for us this weekend too...while at the fuel dock, filling the 3.5 gallon tank, there was a 50' a little further down who instructed the gas guy to "...stop it at 1,500...." - he meant dollars !!

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dblitz
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 13:07:34

Like the man said, if you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it. Makes the waters so much quieter this year. Just wait for the bills from the oil co. to start coming in and people start focusing on how much it's going to cost to heat their homes this winter. Never mind that they bought a bigger house than they really needed, it had to be big to fit the 2 suburbans, oh well. Wonder what pres. candidate will be favored by a cold autumn and the oil bills arriving prior to election day.

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 13:22:29

Gas at Catalina Island was $6.36/gal. I bought 5 gallons.

There were big fast power boats filling up in the hundreds of gallons.

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MartinJW
Navigator

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USA
241 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 13:51:21

A few other points and clarifications about my original post:

1) While I was definitely feeling smug about this situation, I really did feel sorry for this guy. It seemed like he just wanted to have a good time on the water with his family - as we all do - but the cost of his recreation choice was just then sinking in.

2) I like boats - all boats. I have a C-250, a kayak, and a rowing dinghy. If I was rich, and gasoline was cheap and non-problematic, I'd also have a ski boat, an old wooden boat, a patio boat... and, what the hell, maybe even a fishing boat. Someone said that (I'm paraphrasing) there's nothing better than messing about in boats, and I agree.

3) Petroleum is a limited resource. In the 1950s a geologist (Hibbard?) predicted that the U.S. oil production would peak around 1970, and that world oil production would peak about 2000 or 2010. (I probably have these numbers wrong; would someone please correct me?) Hibbard (sp?) said that beyond these dates, you can drill and drill all you like, but there are limitations as to how much oil exists and how much we can extract. From this planet, anyway.

The 1970 prediction was about right, and many of us probably recall gasoline going from $0.25 to $0.50 to $1.00 / gallon in a couple of years in the early 1970s. What did we do? Well, for a few years, we did quite a bit. Average U.S. automobile fuel economy doubled in less than about 10 years, for example. Then the 1980s and 1990s came along, and gasoline prices remained flat and even seemed cheap. We apparently have short memories, and/or most of us are just plain stupid, and Ford, GM, Chrysler, Exxon, Chevron, Shell, et al. were happy to accommodate us.

Now, surprise, surprise! Oil production may have peaked around 2006, but worldwide demand - especially by our friends in emerging markets like China and India - is continuing to increase. Has anyone taken ECON 101?

This thread is now being returned to its regularly scheduled programming. Thank you for your patience.

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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 14:17:21

There's plenty of 'oil' around the earth, the problem is the cost of extraction/processing it. As demand increases as it will for a few years, the price must rise. However, as we wean ourselves off the black stuff, then the demand will drop, but the cost of extraction will only go up so supply will drop and prices will rise even further.

Brazil had it right, but there has to be a balance of growing food and growing fuel. Heating oil is the biggest issue, we just can't store energy efficiently yet to provide energy storage for heating.

Electric is the only way to go for now (until we find a few ZPM's around

) And so the sooner we all start to implement solar energy the better.

Sailboats are probably one of the most easy to switch over. It's the hauling them to the ramp that is reliant upon oil. Not sure any of the Hybrid SUVs have he umph to pull a C25 up the hill.

I suggest that the age of the swing keel is expiring due to the growing cost of hauling them around. However the swing offers more flexibility than a wing especially in this area (sofla).

So it amazes me that Hunter came out with the Edge!

I love this subject.

Didn't take ECON 101 but did take Tech 101 at the British OU

Paul

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dblitz
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 15:53:24

There's a youtube video showing someone from MIT talking about a phenomenal increase in efficiency in photovoltaics that, he says, will have everyone self-sufficient and off the grid within 10 years. I don't know about the science, but during the video this man blinks really strangely and I'm not sure I believe him. Anybody see it??

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 17:36:57

Here in oil country, my lake has more over-powered over-sized gas burners than I care to count and there are more than last year. We left the lake early Sunday because it was just plain too dangerous.
The price of gas at the lake is $1.36 per litre or about $5.44 per US Gallon.

The world has hit 'peak' oil in terms of light sweet crude but it is not even close to peak in terms of all the oil there is that's available. Russia and Venezuela and Canada have trillions of gallons of oil that requires greater extraction costs. at 85 million barrels per day of light sweet crude, the kind you find in the Texas and Saudi oilfields, we have drained the world of about half it's discovered content.
T Boone Pickens has an energy plan that is IMHO very feasable and a good long term plan. google his energy plan for more details.

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cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 08:23:39

Speaking of T. Boone Pickens, I like his plan, and he is right when he says we can't drill our way out of this one. It is also fair to point out that he is invested in the wind power plants that he is pushing and the natural gas that we should use until we are off of oil. Not that he is wrong, but he will profit heavily from the switch.

On another note, we drive from Tulsa to Denver because it is my home. Just west of Salina, KS., they are building one of the largest wind farms that I have seen. They keep putting them up, and altough I haven't counted them yet, there must be 35-40 of them. And they are HUGE>

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Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2008 : 07:43:19

I do feel sorry for the guy who can't get out on the water in his powerboat, it was an investment he made in recreation for his family and friends. I would have to agree with Martin on liking all boats; I do. It's not the power boat that's bad, it's the fact that ignorance of safety on the water is allowed to flourish and giving so much power to one of the ignorant can result in danger for the many.

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2008 : 17:44:46

btw - yesterday: T Boone Pickens and Bill Gates were here and a little further north at the OilSands Project - looking to invest.
If the US wants to import from their next door neighbour instead of Saudi Arabia and Venezeula, the price of gas could drop considerably and a barrel of oil would drop below $100 per barrel.

Run that past your congress.

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skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2008 : 18:56:32

And here is something else to consider. GM is about to come out with an electric car geared to the normal user, the Volt. What's interesting about this for sailing is that in order to make a Volt have the "voltage"

requires really good batteries. GM, using lithium batteries, will make them available and cheaper for other technologies. This would include batteries for running electric motors to power boats. Couple these with more efficient solar collectors and in the not too distant future, none of us, at least those willing to go 3-5 knots, may be using petroleum products at all.

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2008 : 02:28:44

Up to about 4 years ago, the launch ramp parking lots at Folsom Lake would usually be filled to capacity by 11:00am on the average Saturday during the summer boating season, and if you arrived after that you would be turned away. Since 2004, when gas started edging toward $2.50/gallon, there started to be noticeably fewer boats, and in the last two years, I don't think I've ever seen the parking lot at Brown's Marina (where I keep Quiet Time) more than about half-full. Many of the power boats in the dry storage yard at the lake are sitting on flat trailer tires, some with expired registration stickers. Yeah, I'd say that the high price of gas is putting a sizable dent in power boating, as well as RV'ing. So many RV dealers around Sacramento have gone out of business this year that the backlog of unsold motorhomes would probably stretch clear around the equator.

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2008 : 12:21:39

I wish the cost of gas were having the same affect here. We have two launch ramps with very large parking lots and both are filled beyond capacity. Wait times for launching right now, as I type is about 45 minutes.
RV's are still selling like hotcakes.

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cleffe
Deckhand

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USA
21 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2008 : 18:18:11

as strange as this may sound, i am not that upset about gas prices. this is exactly what it takes to wake up the average american to the need of conservation. the fact that we are slowly warming the planet and the devastating effects this will have on us, not to mention other nations, can finally be addressed. it baffles me that the typical american could care less about what effects our never ending need for stuff has on our planet. apparently the only way to get people to respond to these issues is to hit them in the pocket book. Thus the high gas prices may have come just in time. its sad that the american public can not see these things coming far before they hit, plenty of other people and countries don't seem to have any problem recognizing these things, why do we? Sure we have poor education, a population who is addicted to television's brain numbing corporate manipulation, lack of any easily accessible real news or the desire for it, access to endless credit with no true oversight, lack of any true leaders in our current political system, endless national debt with no concern of how it will ever be paid off, and one of the worst/corrupt health care systems in the developed world( and these are only thoughts on our domestic issues). But this can all be changed if the populations would shake off the commercialized haze they live in, make an effort to find clarity, and truly take a look at what is going on around them. anyways sorry for the rant, but all this gas price talk gets me revved up.
so while the gas prices hurt most everyone, the effects of it could far out way the current pain.
anyways sorry about this, i will go back to just reading and not posting.

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2008 : 21:05:42

Uh, Cleffe, is there a country around that you would prefer to live in? With the possible exception of Canada (cold, brrr) there is no where else I would go. I've traveled extensively and seen a lot of other countries. We have our issues but you really need to start looking at the positives and not just the negatives.

I do agree about fuel prices, though. This will force us to get innovative and no country - anywhere - ever - can innovate like the USA. We'll come out of this in better shape than when we went in. Can you imagine what GM will do if they can deliver an affordable all-electric vehicle??

And I agree let's buy our oil from Canada. For crying out loud there is no better friend and neighbor than Canada!

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2008 : 00:43:27

geez, I have been deleted for less! I agree! Crank it up to what Europe is paying and see how many wakes you will have to contend with! How many SUV's will run you over when they can't afford to drive? Turn hummers and motoryachts into homeless shelters!

Ok, who has the delete button? Frank? Oh wait, your are on a hobie!

Sten

DPO Zephyr - '82 C25, FK, SR
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - Newport, RI - In the Anchorage 24/7

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2008 : 09:18:05

I agree too! Time for us to join the real world, where higher prices are primarily due to taxes that help pay for greatly superior rail systems and such. BTW, we do buy oil from Canada, as does the rest of the world. Oil is sorta like air--it migrates through the world market, which sets its price. A significant proportion (I forget the number) of "our" Alaskan oil goes to Asia and Europe, not to "us." That's the simple reason we can't drill our way to lower prices--from what I've found out, we can only potentially add enough to the world supply to reduce world crude prices by about half a percent.

I traded sails and marina slip fees for gas bills and the free slip outside of my condo, with my eyes wide open. I bought the Accord of $+!nkp*+s... literally--it's the Accord V6 turned up on its behind. My 225 on a 27-footer gets about 40-50% better mileage than Ray Sword's 22 (which I presume is a 2-stroke 225). Sorry, but I'll be making wakes for a while.

(I'll drop it down when I'm passing a C-25 or 250.

)

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