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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Radar Detector

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/19/2008 : 12:13:01

I'd never heard of using a car radar detector onboard. My Friend says they would keep a radar detector to give them a heads up if another boat had them on radar. Then they could keep a lookout.
Pretty cool..

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 14:15:38

Sounds interesting, how directional are the detectors? I've never had one.

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 14:24:30

I don't know.. I think there are different designs. I was just kinda surprised as it was new to me. Funny to hear what different places/people/times use.

His sailboat was at Miami, so I'm sure they have a Lot of traffic offshore there, but that seemed like such a creative use for a fuzz buster, you know they make that loud noise when they pick up radar.

Great way to give you a heads up if something big is approaching.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 14:47:03

A bit of research showed that it might well work in the X band, roughly 10GHz +/- 2GHz or so. Marine radar transmits in this range, so a radar detector for X band (pretty nearly every one I've ever heard of) would probably work. Not so sure about directionality, they're designed to detect from all angles, but maybe that's a good thing. I know here on the Puget sound if it worked, it'd simply be going off constantly with all the ferries, commercial traffic, etc. It would seem like it would drive you crazy with false positives constantly, but maybe you can crank down the sensitivity to a smaller range and that would be effective? Dunno, my Passport broke years ago & I never replaced it, so I can't test it, but it had "City" & "Road" settings that varied the sensitivity.

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 14:47:04

OK sorry about that .. I'm from Alabama. So yes.. I know how a radar detector works. I can't drive 55.

They scream at you when they pick up radar from any direction, even from behind a billboard, behind a bush, under a bridge, and anywhere else those beady eyed bast**** are hidin...

Omnidirectional ( And yes I use many words when one will do )

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redeye
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Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 14:49:14

Yepper on setting the sensitivity and I'm sure it would be bothersome in some areas.. but offshore a ways I'd think that it would be a neat trick.

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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1771 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 17:14:45

On SV Lysistrata we do carry a radar detector for the aforementioned reasons. This is an old school sailors trick for those without radar detecting those who do have it. It does work. We have radar on SV Lysistrata and I have plugged the unit in once I had a bogey on my screen and it wailed like a sick puppy.

Note: It is an aid, its directional capabilities were limited. Solo sailors have used them to alert them to commercial traffic while at sea. The benefit to coastal cruisers is there, it just might be harder to interpret the alarm.

Sten

DPO Zephyr - '82 C25, FK, SR
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - Newport, RI - In the Anchorage 24/7

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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3285 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 18:19:33

marine radar detectors were used extensively in the single handed transpac, I think every vessel had one.

Great for those midnight watches 1000 miles offshore.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 18:34:56

Where do you mount them? Can they be mounted in the cabin out of the weather? I can definitely see their utility on long night watches. I'd imagine the wail of a detection would wake you up better than a stiff cup of joe.

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ClamBeach
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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 19:35:15

I don't think the transpac/pacific cup folks are using radar detectors much anymore... they have gone to AIS units... which are now mandated on all large vessels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Identification_System

Class B receive-only units are available at a fairly modest price. Good investment if you're going to be in waters frequented by commercial shipping.

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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 08:08:52

exactly my thought...it would be pretty handy on over night passages...

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 08:52:32

Sten: Do you use the detector when you're running your own radar? I would expect the detector to react to the stray radiation outside of the beam. I suppose if you're using it as an alarm while sleeping, you don't need your radar on...

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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1771 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 11:10:02

Dave,
During my test, I did shut down radar and tried it both ways. The radar detector lazily thrown under the dodger did show bars when the radar was on, but did not go off. If you have radar, you should be able to set a perimeter alarm anyway. But older radar units consume a lot of power, so this is really more of a crossing thing. I just threw it onboard as a backup for backups, i.e. the radar unit craps out in heavy fog. I have only played with it once and that was enough to convince me to keep it onboard. I'm going to install AIS soon as we always have a plotter running and that too allows for a perimeter alarm. Won't pick up the sailboat though...

sten

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 11:58:58

Yes, all the single handed transpac boats had AIS, I thought it was just a radar detector, thanks for the link.

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Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 12:07:21

Radar is directional, and radar detectors designed for road usage are designed appropriately, they have cone-shaped receivers; usually only one pointing forward, though the more expensive ones will have one facing toward the rear also. Automotive Radar detectors primarily rely on radar waves to either enter directly from ahead, or to bounce off objects in front of the car and thereby be directed into the receiver. I've seen references to some of the more expensive, newer automotive radar detectors being "360 protection", but I would want to read their technical specs before I would buy one for usage on the water. You should also be aware that most automotive radar detectors are not really very sensitive and will only pick up a signal within two or three miles.

http://www.radarguns.com/how-radar-guns-work.html

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 12:17:04

Doppler radar used by police is much lower energy than pulsed shipboard radar. You might have a problem getting it to alarm, but it should show a signal a long way off.

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 13:28:26

The most basic radar detector comprises of a simple radio receiver, exactly like the one used to catch radio stations.

The guns are directional. The detectors are not.

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Stardog
Captain

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319 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 17:14:26

Radar receiver elements are not directional, but the mechanism used to trap and focus the radar waves is, the receiver is housed at the bottom of what looks like a tiny megaphone, which is essentially a tiny dish antenae. Waves that can pass into the cone at the proper angle will bounced down to the receiver, other waves bounce out. For this reason a single radar receiver has a window of reception defined by the angles at which radar waves can be trapped. On the water there are no billboards, roadsigns, trees, buildings, etc. to bounce the radar signal around, so a radar detector has to be pointing in the general direction of the radar source at the moment the radar signal sweeps the area, or it will not be picked up. This is probably the reason there are no "marine radar detectors", at least, I've not been able to find any.

I think this whole discussion got started because someone had a friend who said he used an automotive radar detector on-board at night. Given the problems involved in receiving radar waves on the water and the type of radar used on the water, I would not use an automotive radar detector on my boat, I think relying on one would give you a false sense of security and could put you in extreme danger. If I sailed my boat at night in an area where there was a great deal of traffic, I would install a radar, then there would be no question as to whether or not I was in danger of collision.

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Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 19:13:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">those beady eyed bast**** <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You meant The Police Officers that protect your life every day" didn't you?

Your mouth makes me so angry sometime with disrespect.

HOW CAN I BLOCK THIS GUY

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 21:33:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stardog
 Given the problems involved in receiving radar waves on the water and the type of radar used on the water, I would not use an automotive radar detector on my boat, I think relying on one would give you a false sense of security and could put you in extreme danger. If I sailed my boat at night in an area where there was a great deal of traffic, I would install a radar, then there would be no question as to whether or not I was in danger of collision.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Radar is a good thing--I have it... But using it has its own challenges--filtering out sea-clutter (wave reflections), recognizing different kinds of targets (buoys, boats, ships, shorelines,...) and missing targets (fiberglass boats with no reflectors). And one radar will not acknowledge the presence of another.

The detector at least does the latter, and it should be reasonably reliable as a simple alarm (within some range). It won't tell you much, but it'll get your attention. Inshore marine radars are X-band, which the detectors all detect. Ships at sea use S-band, which the detectors might not recognize, but near land, ships also run X-band. I personally have a problem with detectors for cars, but I can see some incremental utility in a boat--never thought about it till now.

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ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 23:51:04

They do make a [url="http://www.pyacht.com/online-store/scstore/h-survival_safety_card.htm"]directional marine radar detector[/url], albeit about as complicated as radar and none too cheap..

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Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2008 : 08:08:37

Looks to me like Ilnadi has found a reasonable solution. This device is expensive ($435), but when compared to the cost of other accessories you might buy for your boat, it's not so bad. Also when considering safety in a traffic area at night, it's very affordable. I like that it has four receivers and can tell you the approximate direction of the radar signal.

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2008 : 07:38:13

My apologies to all and the officers that give their lives protecting us. I did not mean to disrespect their efforts. It was just a very old joke I heard one night from a truck driver regarding a officer that was hiding behind a billboard. I will give the reference a burial.

regards.ray

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