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Not Happy, Bottom paint comming off

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RedRedWhine
Navigator

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USA
167 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/25/2008 : 16:19:41

Well as you all my know I pulled Red Red Whine out in June to do a bottom job on her. I have showed you all the pictures of the muscles etc. Well after grinding and cleaning the calcium off the boat, sanding the entire bottom and painting her, I went to the lake yesterday and found that the paint has been peeling off. The section in the back is gone and along the water line on the port side the paint is cracking where water is getting behind the pain. I am not sure what happened. We cleaned the bottom sanded the bottom down and applied the paint according to the directions.. The paint was allowed to dry for two weeks before it went back in the water. Now I have to do it all over again. I got the paint from West Marine and will be talking to them tomorrow. I am sure that they will have no clue. I will let you all know what happens.

Don and Kim Young
Las Vegas Nv
http://web.me.com/bolter303/Our_World/Welcome.html

Edited by - RedRedWhine on 08/25/2008 16:20:42

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2008 : 16:34:12

Don, I remember the pics of all the muscles. What a bummer. That is strange the problem is only in certain areas, while not in others. I wonder, was paint in affected areas from a different can than the other areas not affected. Maybe you got a bad batch in that one can.
I haven't heard others mention this type of problem before but perhaps someone can shed some light.
And you may be right re the response of WM. Keep us posted.
Sorry to hear news.
Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 08/25/2008 16:34:55

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2008 : 16:37:33

wow ! ,

when ever I do something , I try to make things easy to go back and fix it .
because I always have to someday .

good thing you have the trailer !

did you let the bottom dry for a day or two before painting ?

did you scuff the bottom before you started ?

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2008 : 17:03:07

After sanding, did you clean the bottom with Acetone or some other special cleaner? If so, how much time in between the final cleaning and the new paint?

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2008 : 17:12:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Blackburn
 After sanding, did you clean the bottom with Acetone or some other special cleaner? If so, how much time in between the final cleaning and the new paint?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Acetone would have evaporated in about 5 seconds and probably not the cause Steve - but I do like the thought. What about some sort of a chemical stripper when you brought it down to bare glass? Did you put on a barrier coat? What type of paint did you use - some are actually meant to come off. And as crazy as it might sound, some aren't meant to be out of the water for a long time two weeks might have done you in?(doubtful though)

Edited by - Champipple on 08/25/2008 17:13:42

Al
Captain

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USA
269 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2008 : 19:28:05

I looked through your previous posts when you were painting your bottom buy didn't see what brand paint you used, but anyway:

I would start at West Marine. If it was WM paint (and even if it wasn't) they're going to say your prep work was wrong. I'd arm myself with pics of the prep work you did (leave out the mussel pics!) and print out some of your posts where you described what grit sandpaper you used (I know you originally wanted to use 80 grit, but then backed off) and anything else to document you did the prep work carefully and to the letter of the directions printed on the can. The goal here is to create a strong case and let them know that you're serious about some compensation. Walking in there with a friendly but determined attitude (plus a file folder overflowing with documentation...) will go a long way to coming to a good resolution.

If it wasn't WM paint, do the same thing, but do it with the paint mfg.

So what's a good resolution? I don't know because there's so much labor involved, but your time is worth something so it's more than just giving you more paint at N/C. I think a bottom paint job is around $800 but I might be way off. But would you consider splitting that with WM or the paint mfg. to get a new paint job?

Edited by - on

RedRedWhine
Navigator

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USA
167 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2008 : 19:30:25

Well, here is the Paint I used. Maybe not the best but I know that now. [url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/29502/377%20710/0/west%20marine%20bottomshield/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710&Ne=0&Ntt=west%20marine%20bottomshield&Ntk=Primary%20Search&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=west%20marine%20bottomshield&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=5000&subdeptNum=4&classNum=229#"]Paint[/url]

After grinding off the calcium and sanding with 80 and 100 grit sandpaper. I washed the bottom with a mild soap and a pressure washer. I let the bottom dry for a day and than painted. I used only one gallon and it covered just fine. I painted all the boat accept for the area under the pads. I jacked up the boat and lowered the pads to paint them. The gallon covered all of the bottom with just enough to get the bottom of the keel at the lake.

There was no primer or barrier coat added. No chemicals or solvents at all. Now when I rub my had on the paint under the water it turns light blue. It does not completely come off but a little is on my hand. I was not happy with the paint at all when I put it on. I thought it was a little soft to the touch, even after a week drying. I could take a fingernail and cut in to the paint. I will let you all know what WM says. Meanwhile I need help and advice what paint to use now. I am leaning to the Vic-17.

Edited by - on

Al
Captain

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USA
269 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2008 : 19:34:47

If you feel you didn't follow the directions to the letter, you shouldn't expect WM to help you out (although they may).

If you feel you did follow directions, I would want a new paint job (not just the paint) courtesy of WM.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2008 : 20:45:27

Don,
Sorry to hear about your paint woes, it's miserable to do so much work only to have the paint fail.

Someone earlier mentioned drying time before launch, some paints are designed to be wetted by water very quickly after it's dried. However, reading how you were able to scrape the paint with your fingernail throws up a flag. It sounds like the paint didn't cure properly. That could be caused by a number of things, like improper mixing, wrong thinners, old paint, the hull was damp with condensation when you painted.

As Al mentioned, if you show up at WM with documentation showing how you did everything you thought you should, I'd expect them to be helpful. WM understands customer service, and generally takes care of their customers. Of course they're going to charge you out the nose for that service, but that's another thread.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

BTW, we use VC-17m on SL.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2008 : 20:54:23

First - that stuff will flake/powder off when brushed scraped touched etc. It is made to do that so that stuff doesn't grow on the bottom of your boat. If you keep the boat on a trailer, that might (I'm not completely sure) not be the right brand of paint. It is made by interlux - and while they don't give tech support for their off label products, you could probably find the comparable at West Marine (they usually have a chart right there in the aisle) and call and ask questions to the interlux help line.

If you don't keep it docked in the water, I'd consider going with a barrier coat and hosing it off when you take the boat out. If you keep the boat in the water for considerable periods of time (more than a weekend) then you'll want to definitely put some coat of something on the bottom. Your best bet is to ask a handful of sailors what they do in your local waters. If all else fails I'd go with the VC-17.

VC -17 is a good paint - you'll get roughly 1 season per coat, maybe more. I'd recommend an interlux barrier coat 2000e prior to putting this stuff on. You'll also need to sand all of that other stuff off first....good luck

Edited by - on

RedRedWhine
Navigator

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USA
167 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2008 : 21:56:10

Hey,

The boat is in the water all the time. It has been in the water since 2003 when it was bought from Marina Del Rey. When I was leaving the dock I met a guy who was scrubbing the bottom oh his Catalina 36 Mark II. He said that he had very little paint rubbing off the bottom. He suggested that I come to the Nevada Sailing Club meeting next month and talk to some of the sailors there. I think I will do that as well as do a little more research into the subject. Please keep the info coming. I can not read the car now due to spill paint on it. I know I had to mix it very well. I used a drill with a mixer blade on it as well as shake the can by hand.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2008 : 22:12:56

I don't remember if the instructions say to use a primer on the bottom if you start with glass. They make a non-sandable primer, one that requires no sanding before application, which should be use on the 250 or you void the blister warranty.
I had a problem with my bottom paint two years ago were the paint did not leach and barnacles cover my bottom in less than a week. I called WM customer support and supplied prep, finish and barnacle pictures. To make a long story short WM paid for a haul out and a week on stands, Interlux provided two gallons of Micron Extra and I provided the labor. The Interlux representative said that they had a bad batch of paint supplied to WM and not all got returned.
I would give WM customer service a call and explain your problem.

Edited by - on

willy
Captain

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USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2008 : 12:36:16

Painting is such a hassle...either the labor is intensive or the labor is expensive. For that reason, I always use really good paint. Interlux Micron CSC is what I use and while its expensive, it lasts three boating seasons, where the Bottomcoat will last one at best. My boating season is from the end of April until the end of October.
Willy

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2008 : 13:44:40

Don,

Sorry to hear about your back luck with the paint job.

The specifications in the link you gave describe the time to launch as 8-24 hours, so it looks like Duane's hunch may have been correct - the paint needs to be submerged within a day of application.

I've used Pettit Trinidad Antifouling Bottom Paint from WM, and it's worked just fine. At $230/gal it better work!

Lots of folks on this forum like the advantages of VC17, too.

More boat units... more boat units!

Edit - I would like to buy a bottle of the copper chelator and mix my own epoxy paint with stabilized copper oxide dust, but the chemicals themselves are expensive and I'd have to optimize with fields tests. So store-bought paint will have to do for now.

WM may want to help you, in any case. Good luck.

Edited by - JohnP on 08/26/2008 14:12:10

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2008 : 14:10:36

Now that I've looked at the specs of the Pettit Trinidad paint that I have used, I remember that I always paint the bottom the day before launch. Since the crew in the boatyard is very busy with shifting priorities, some years my boat has been launched later than 24 hours. The paint still holds up all season.

Edited by - on

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