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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Downsizing thoughts

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/20/2008 : 21:24:20

So not to hijack Frank's C30 thread, I thought I'd answer the Trailer-Sailer question here.

The thing that took me away from 5 foot-itis was that our boats have no real "systems" that require a lot of attention. I have a tiller, an outboard and a porta-potti. Pretty low-tech.

I think that the C250 is a great boat but, I think that it can be transported on a trailer but that doesn't really make it trailerable in IMHO, I really think that a 2 hour set up and take down are not really "trailer-sailer". I think it is even more complicated with a wing keel given the increased difficulty in launching. Not to mention the tow vehicle requirements. These aren't digs at the 250. I love my boat. It just doesn't meet my idea of a "trailer-sailer". A lot of guys on this forum, whose opinions I respect, will differ with me I'm sure.

What has actually made me think of a smaller boat was that I've been driving a lot around my beautiful state of Ohio recently and I've been thinking that I might like to be pulling a little something (West Wight Potter, C22, O-Day 22, something) behind my little pickup and stop at some of the smaller lakes around the state.

Anyway, it's not likely to happen any time soon cuz I just arranged for winter storage and next year's slip lease for Kaija.

John Russell
1999 C250 SR/WK #410
Bay Village, Ohio
Sailing Lake Erie
Don't Postpone Joy!

Edited by - on

Scumbucket
1st Mate

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USA
53 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2008 : 21:57:43

John, I can understand what you are saying and I am not knocking the C25 or the C250 either. I know all boats have trade off with pro's and cons to them.

I have been following the SoCal Potters http://www.howies.net/socalpotter/ for sometime now and they seem to really enjoy their trips and they will be the first to tell the limits of their crafts just we have to.

Some folks go bigger while others smaller, so I think that it all boils down to what makes you happy!

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2008 : 21:58:06

I'm admittedly a little prejudiced about this, but I think that the C-22 is a great little trailer-sailer. It's easy to haul, sets up and launches quickly and the cockpit layout is almost identical to the C-25, or is is vice versa?

Edited by - on

Breezy Cat
1st Mate

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38 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2008 : 22:17:06

John,
Thanks for bringing this up.
I can totally understand the want to down size to sail more places and stay within a budget as everything gets more expensive.
I am not thinking of downsizing but I am putting my “5 foot-itice” to rest.
With gas and yard costs going up, and retirement looming, to stay sailing the C-25 is plenty of boat and still affordable.
It’s a hard decision to sink serious money into the boat but if it is to be “the” boat a new motor, mount and sails are in order.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2008 : 22:48:44

If I were to down size [url="http://www.marine-concepts.com/"]this[/url] would be my choice. I've sailed with a few guys that own these. You can get in some skinny water with them. Overnight if you want and they are fast too.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2008 : 07:29:53

Tom - those are great - 6" draft and under $15k...pretty cool.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2008 : 08:09:41

I do not want to downsize as much as I want to increase my options and at same time work on a project of sorts. I am interested (though may never get to do it) build one of those small wooden sailboats they sell as plans, kits or even w/classes to build it. My thought is that I then have the option of trailering a small sailboat when we go on vacation or if I want to go to a different area for a day or so. The two I like are the 15' Skerry by Cheasapeake Light Craft sold as a kit but they also have classes for those that procrastinate in building it or need a bit of assit in tools or instruction. The other is one or two boats sold by Shell Boats as plans or kits - One being the "Lucky" which is a 12' sailboat and more the size I was considering.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2008 : 08:12:51

Truth is, I regret selling my O'Day Daylsailer when I bought Kaija. Should've kept them both.

Did I mention the Admiral doesn't read this forum??????

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2008 : 08:14:22

John, I have had a Catalina 22 loved it, like I love my c250. I don't trailer now but I know what you are talking about. If I were going to downsize, it might be something along the lines of Tom Potter's link. I would want something that is very, very easy to trailer, fast setup but also something fun to sail. There are so many choices out there and you can certainly find one to fit your needs. And that is the bottom line, what is your lifestyle? I am glad to hear sailing is still a part of it.
I gotta tell you however, after being at a local boat show, I saw a 2 man Hobie you can paddle, pedal with your feet and sail, that really got my interest. If I could only figure out where to keep it. And my wife loved it too.
For me, though because where I live, there is only the ocean to sail in. That's why I have a slip and no trailer. If I lived in an area with lakes, I would feel like you and want to explore them all. And I also have to agree with you about loving a low tech boat on several levels. Besides the obvious, its being more one with nature and escaping our crazy fast paced world, if that makes sense. Guess that's why I don't have a power boat. Maybe thats why I dont upgrade, although I think about it, to a larger sail boat.
Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 09/21/2008 08:37:32

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2008 : 09:07:37

I did downsize to a van with shore power and a cot and a catamaran, I am very happy. I can go anywhere and be sailing in minutes.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2008 : 09:40:18

For really cheap thrills and fairly good boatspeed get a Venture 17.

There is just enough cabin to 'keep your stuff' and offer a refuge from the weather or maybe do a 'cozy' overnight. Pretty good cockpit room for their length. Light, easy to launch and set up. You can pick one up for a song.

They were (and still are) a pretty fast boat in their class. Same comments apply to V21... just a little bigger.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2008 : 13:43:53

There's a West Weight Potter 17' at my lake. Sailed by a Brit.
Looks like a nice boat sailed by a capable sailor.
We have half a dozen C22's on our lake and I believe that if you want a boat that looks like a boat when you downsize, the C22 is the way to go.
My criteria for moving down is a single axle trailer and a towing weight under 3,000LB.
I love my C25, but I'm looking at alternatives such as a fractional ownership on the west coast or getting a second, smaller boat and keeping my C25.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2008 : 13:47:46

Frank,
I'm with you, I think if I were going to downsize it'd be to a Sol-Cat 20/ Hobie 18, something along those lines. I don't think I've ever had as much pure sailing fun as when I sailed my Venture Cat years ago. If we were on a lake, I'd probably spend far more time on a cat than I would on my 250. Plus as a trailer sailor, my cat could be in the water about 25 minutes after I got into the parking lot, instead of two hours minimum on either side of a sail in our 250. That's the single biggest reason we decided to get a slip. Getting the cat out of the water, dropping the mast & hitting the road wasn't much more than 15 minutes, I could drop the mast by hand, didn't need the crutch like on the way up, just a simpler way to sail.

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2008 : 20:24:56

we saw this boat out looked like fun

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2008 : 21:28:08

For exploring almost anywhere, I have a pair of these inflatables from WM in my trunk or in my cockpit... Cheap, simple, compact, and fun! (You can check them as baggage on a flight, too.)

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JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2008 : 09:06:45

The Sea Pearl 21 in Tom's link has some nice design features that make launching really fast. It has leeboards, for example. The 2 masts rotate to furl the sails. Short masts and booms that stay in place when trailering. Neat idea.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2008 : 11:24:22

http://southcoastus.tripod.com/sc22.html

I dragged one of these around for years (South Coast 22). That's my boat and my B&W image they still use on the Southcoast owners webpage. Great fun and easy to work on, light and swing keel. Pretty thin on the resin though, so many of these older boats could really use some work. The company is no longer in business.

The Marina I'm at now usta have about 10 of these half out of the water and I don't see them anymore, so I think they must have scuttled them or just taken them off to the dump.

They sailed really well and it was a fun size, enough to sleep on and pull without any special sized car.

But it was not fun riding out a storm in one!! ( Ahhh the memories )

Right now I likes my Catalina 25, drop the hook and it stays put...

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2008 : 12:48:07

This is the first year that I've thought about downsizing to a 22-footer. Don't know what precipitated the thought, but it could have had something to do with the need to buff out and wax my boat this year and the cost of running a 1/2 ton pickup I only need for towing to and from the local ramp.

The only drawback to downsizing for me is that I thoroughly enjoy cruising and racing on Lake Superior. I wouldn't risk doing either one in a 22 foot boat.

So, since I still have about 3 years worth of payments on my truck I'll keep my beloved Gallivant. I'll have sailed her for 22 years. Hmmmmm, is that a coinsidence or what? After that I'll again consider downsizing.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2008 : 15:00:46

Seems that there is a lot of difference between a 25 footer and a 22 footer both on the water and behind a tow vehicle.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2008 : 19:34:39

>"Seems that there is a lot of difference between a 25 footer and a 22 footer both on the water and behind a tow vehicle."

Indeed there is.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2008 : 21:59:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ClamBeach
 >"Seems that there is a lot of difference between a 25 footer and a 22 footer both on the water and behind a tow vehicle."

Indeed there is.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">In that size range, every three feet almost doubles the effective size of the boat--inside and out. A 25 is totally different from a 22, and a 28 is a palace inside (and totally non-trailerable) compared to a 25.

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2008 : 11:22:04

The bigger the boat the greater the maintenance and storage issues. As I approach 60 I'm thinking that don't want to have to deal with either one, especially in todays economic climate and retirement looming on the horizon.

A 22 footer does not allow one to sail in many of the conditions that a larger boat can handle but it is much cheaper and easier to maintain, and can be towed by a much small, more econmonical vehicle. Heck, trailoring to the C-22 Nationals would almost be a snap compared to the C-25. The more I think about it the more I like the idea.

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2008 : 12:15:54

Well Al, your 88 TR is a very valuable boat and the Catalina 22 wing is not so... sounds smart to me.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2008 : 12:16:16

Gee, maybe that's why they had over 40 boats and we didn't...

Frank, I don't think you want to show up at C-22 Nationals with a wing.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/23/2008 12:17:54

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2008 : 18:58:56

I bought a 1986 C-22 last spring for the same reasons most of the other posters in this thread have. The C-25 and C-250 are wonderful boats but the mast raising evolution required for trailering them is just too much work for an away cruise less than a full week or two in length. The last time I trailered Quiet Time to the San Juans, it took four hours to get the boat fully rigged and launched - that was with two people helping. The de-rig at the end of that trip took seven hours as I had no help. I can rig up Magic, my C-22, in about half the time.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2008 : 12:44:17

Amen on the C-22! Every time I think of selling it, I end up changing my mind.
3300 lbs boat and trailer, and mine is a bit on the heavy side. There were 3 for sale on Ebay last week. If you want to get one and go to the Nationals next summer, buy a 1970-1075 model now and start stripping/reworking it.

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