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spreadsheet tools

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glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/25/2008 : 20:01:59

I posted this question generically to ADMIN earlier this week but did not get a reply so I'm posting it again here.

Not often, but on occasion a spreadsheet tool comes to light that is of interest. One I have been exploring of late is a tool to help examine differing anchoring approaches -- very good. Two questions: Is there a mechanism on this forum to share such tools safely (fear of infected macros is the issue). Is there interest in archiving and distributing such tools on this forum -- perhaps as an extension to the technical tips section? I do not suspect there would be many contributions, but particularly with all the talent on this forum this could prove quite interesting. What do you think?

Gerry Livingston, Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2008 : 07:24:44

AS in MS Excel? Sounds interesting. Why not post a link?

Edited by - on

ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2008 : 07:36:26

you can post it on Google docs, then people can open it as HTML or Google-doc o see it before downloading it.
OR
just point to a download site that does its own precautions.

(I've been thinking about this trying to post some electrical spreadsheets)

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2008 : 08:41:37

Or, send to me and I'll host it.

Paul
im britinusa at helloworld dot com

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2008 : 10:38:09

Electrical (simple) boat spreadsheet drawings sounds electrifying

to me... Would love to be able to install shore power, inverter etc. but am at a total loss where to begin. Can anyone help...

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crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2008 : 10:42:52

I am not the least bit ashamed to admit that I did not understand a word of that.

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Ed Cassidy
Captain

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USA
365 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2008 : 11:05:27

And we still have to click twice to go back one page.
And we still have to click twice to go back one page.

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DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2008 : 15:01:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I am not the least bit ashamed to admit that I did not understand a word of that.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Basically talking about Instructional information done by way of computer program and how/if it can be incorporated into the tech-tips section.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5383 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2008 : 20:51:46

Henk --
What would you like to do on your boat? Most of us have a battery, an engine with an alternator, running lights, mast light, steaming light, cabin lights, a VHF and a few accessories like a knot meter, depth gauge and GPS.

Some have radar, audio systems and an electric bilge pump.

Some have an inverter to produce 120VAC for TV sets, DVD players, computers, electric coolers. Some have shore power with a battery charger.

Given that you probably already have some of the above equipment, what are in your plans? There are some excellent reference books out there, and of course, this forum.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2008 : 00:49:15

Voyager, I am truly impressed by the people who have all that stuff on their boats and don't have to worry about batteries.

I am always worried that:
a) my batteries will run out and
b) I won't be able to get into the marina, and end up spending th enight on th ehook out in the open without a light on.

Motivated me to buy a pile of butane and a lantern that can be hung in the rigging, but still, I am awestruck by th eboats who don't suffer battery stress.

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2008 : 02:05:12

Bruce:
Thanks for asking... I'll work out a wish list to come up with an outline and will post it as new subject in the 250 specific forum... we do as well seem to have a lot of "electrical stuff", on board... perhaps butane & lanterns, as per Chris Prospector's suggestion, after all is the answer

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5383 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2008 : 22:27:59

Henk -
For my purposes, I have my required nav lights, rechargeable fluorescent cabin lights (2 GE steel beam lights from Costco), a VHF and and a 10W FM & CD audio unit.

I use an inverter for my laptop and cell phone charger. The engine has both a pull start and an electric start, so I never have to worry about being "dead in the water" unless I run out of gas.

The battery provides about 80 AH. I use two 18W solar panels to keep the battery topped off most of the time, but sometimes I have to run the engine's alternator if I heavily discharge the battery.

I use ice in my 5 day Igloo cooler and a Coleman 'white gas' stove for coffee and cooking on overnight trips.

When I did my power spreadsheet, I found that I could manage an entire season using this approach.

I don't plan to get a TV set, a microwave or electric bilge pump for Passage.

Next season, I will look for a larger or an additional battery to provide a greater reserve.

Moral of the story, it's not hard to live with a battery so long as you "live within your means".

Edited by - Voyager on 09/27/2008 22:29:27

glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2008 : 07:48:52

This was our last weekend before haulout so I disappeared there for a couple of days. Fall sailing is fantastic, rain or shine.

Paul, I forwarded the anchor catenary tension spreadsheet under separate email as you suggested.

Background: There has been considerable discussion on this forum on the art of anchoring based on individuals experience and location, such as coastal vs. inland waters. The spreadsheet application that I'm posting simply adds to that discussion by allowing one to explore how scope, tackle dimensions and the use of a kellet influences the "horizontal tension" on the anchor system. The application was authored by a John Holtrop in 2001 and I think posted to one of our forums by delliotg last winter. The application did not get any attention in that first posting perhaps because the original author did not well document the application. I have added comments, addressed some formatting to help make the software a bit more user friendly and filled in a couple of gaps in the rode density table. I have not altered the underlying code except to add one additional variable (rode angle at the surface:Cell B21, nor have I formally verified the code. This is a very simple application but I found it instructional to visualize how to optimize/compromise specific anchoring systems.

Use:
Launch Microsoft Excel and check your security settings - on the menu bar select Tools/Macro/Security. By checking "Medium" security, you will be offered the choice of whether or not to launch any given macro. If security is set to "High" this application will likely be rejected because it is not "digitally signed".

Open this application and click the "Enable macros" button in the query box that opens. Read the instructions in the ReadMe section and quickly browse through the comments and variable definitions.

Fill in the required input data and click the "Calculate Rode Tension" button on line 2. The correct solution to this non-linear problem is presented when the "computed depth" and "input depth" are similar. The larger the value of the "horizontal tension" term, the greater the holding power of your anchor system.

Caveat: I am not a computer programmer nor do I endorse this software. Use it at your own risk. I am hoping, however, that through the peer review process of this forum, software applications such as this can be critiqued and, if warranted, improved upon and made available as additional tools.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2008 : 16:26:02

The spreadsheet is now available for download in the Tech Tips - All boats area.

I opened it in OpenCalc (the openoffice spreadsheet application) without hitch.
However, I did note that the distance from Bow numbers were as many as 4 decimal places!
In my copy of the spreadsheet, I changed the 'Plotted X' column format to 2 decimal places which made the numbers on the graph easier to read. Besides, who can figure a distance of .001 feet?

(Where's my decimal imperial 250' tape measure

)

I'm in the small group of americans that support switching to metric system for all units of measurement.. metric knot?

[url="http://books.google.com/books?id=nj1RWMy10vMC&pg=PR12&lpg=PR12&dq=metric+knot&source=web&ots=uGYpylYyoo&sig=BDVrc2njPYG5ReMZLiMY7c1vTeU&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result"]Metric Knots[/url]

Paul

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5383 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2008 : 22:23:36

Paul -
Congratulations, by the way. Glad you got the nod.

Being an engineer who's worked in Europe, Canada and the Far East from time to time over the past 20 years, I too am in favor of using the metric system in the States, but I would not count on it any time soon.

Please tell me - - who in their right mind can memorize that 1852 meters/hour or 1.852 klicks is equivalent to a metric knot. That's almost as absurd as remembering that 5280 feet are in a statute mile!

Only a kid who had that drummed into their heads: like 128 oz in a US Gallon and an acre is 44000 square feet could remember such rubbish! I was checking my recent edition of the Mariner's Book of Days which reminded me that 120 fathoms = a cable, and 7.5 cables equals a statute mile.

Instead I prefer knowing that one minute of arc is a NM (latitude only). Now there's a number you can hang your hat on.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2008 : 23:34:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 ...an acre is 44000 square feet...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Close enough for Marine Electrical Engineering, I guess.

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glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2008 : 07:12:59

Thanks Paul. I agree the numeric formatting should be changed. I'll pool any other comments, if any, and submit an updated version at some point. I would like to revise the graph as well but left most things as original in this first version.

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DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2008 : 07:53:58

Boy, I wish I could say I understand all the variables. Is a Kellet an anchor? Is there a more explanatory guide? Neat stuff though!

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2008 : 08:41:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DaveR
 ...Is a Kellet an anchor?...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">There are a couple of good answers at the end of [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=5793&SearchTerms=kellet"]this thread[/url].

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DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2008 : 11:00:30

Ah, very good. Thanks Dave. I did an internet search and asked my virtual dictionary with no results but failed to search the archives

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