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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

electric motors?

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chris
1st Mate

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USA
26 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/17/2008 : 12:39:47

Favorite lake going to elec only next year. anyone w/ experience on cat 25. info on power necessry, brands, batteries, need to recharge, etc. appreciated. chris

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2008 : 12:59:10

That is the stupidest thing I ever heard, I hope you become politically active and put a stop to that!
Buy a Catamaran and spend NO MONEY at the lake, show them the effect of ignorance.

OK, so I fell better now; Chris, what is their reasoning?

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2008 : 13:22:28

I learned to sail on a beautiful mountain lake in Bavaria where my instructor said: "Motor, you don't need a bloody (he was a Brit) motor, you have sails." Indeed, I don't recall seeing any sailboats on that lake with a motor. There were "motorboats" that all had electric propulsion. BTW, I learned on a C-25.

Just leave your motor in your garage when sailing that lake. Admittedly, it might be a tad hard to sail on and off a trailer.

Edited by - John Russell on 10/17/2008 13:23:47

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2008 : 13:35:53

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/07/testing-the-torqeeda.php

Maybe you can put a glasspac on it to make it sound better.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2008 : 17:19:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">That is the stupidest thing I ever heard,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Maybe they are trying to get rid of those GIANT LOUD motor boats?

There is some chatter every once in a while on the Yahoo Saildrive Owners Group about refitting the engine with an electric motor. Don't know if it's ffeasable or not.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2008 : 17:40:27

If all you need is in and out of a marina, mooring, or launch area, an upper end trolling motor should work OK. I used a 35 or 40 lb. thrust motor on my Clipper 21 (only 2000 lb.) and could hit 3 kts. But even with its finer entry, a moderate chop and 15 kt. breeze would stop me dead. I charged the battery once a month, but smaller motors have permanent magnets and simple circuits and can work as generators when sailing. You would probably need to be in the 80+ thrust range, and those motors have sophisticated electronic controls and probably won't function as generators.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5376 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2008 : 19:27:54

What have you got for a 4.5 kt current?

Last weekend, with the deepest tides of the year (-0.6 ft on an 8.4 ft tide), even with the 8HP Honda I was almost at a standstill on the river with the engine at full throttle and sails up with a 10kt breeze on a beam reach.

I'm as big a tree hugger as anybody else and while I'd like to use the electric engine with my solar charger out on the lake for fishing, unfortunately, I don't think I can use this electric on the Cat25.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2008 : 16:08:34

I think General Electric's old Electric Boat Division (pre-nuclear submarines) might have something for you.

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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2008 : 19:05:12

Is their decision cast in stone?

Understandably, they want to reduce pollution and noise, but surely the reduction to less than 10hp would be a significant reduction and yet still maintain an income from the boating industries.

I would look at trying to change the decision. Who is behind it? is is state or some dept?

Paul

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2008 : 09:43:10

Move to a red state!

Edited by - dmpilc on 10/21/2008 09:43:28

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2008 : 15:45:36

A local Cat 22 uses an electric trolling motor for getting in and out of the slip and motoring through the fairway to get sailing.

Works fine.

Silent, lightweight, cheap. Stow down below when not sailing.

I can use my 3.5 HP outboard in the same role.

Edited by - on

EAbrams
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2008 : 07:39:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 I think General Electric's old Electric Boat Division (pre-nuclear submarines) might have something for you.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Too Funny Dave

My brother worked for them for about ten years. Installed A/C ducts.

Electric boat hasn't changed it's name and they are still building Nuclear subs out of their Groton (New London) Ct. location. But I think it's General Dynamics not GE. Top secret stuff on board. To work there he even had to provide them with family info ( me, my wife, etc.) for his background check.

He was able to get tickets for us to watch a nuke sub being launched. I can't remember the name of the ship or class of sub. It sure was impressive to watch.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2008 : 08:37:14

Yup--General Dynamics. I go by the Groton plant now and then on the Thames River. Patrol boats watch me go by... If I got a camera out, I'm sure I'd get a visit!

Edited by - on

EAbrams
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2008 : 16:55:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Yup--General Dynamics. I go by the Groton plant now and then on the Thames River. Patrol boats watch me go by... If I got a camera out, I'm sure I'd get a visit!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I was thinking of you when I made my reply Dave. Was gonna make a joke about you bumping one of those boomers with your foot foot keel.

Edit: Look at that this makes 100 posts. I just got promoted from "swab".

Edited by - EAbrams on 10/22/2008 16:59:32

panhead1948
Captain

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345 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2008 : 19:11:04

I was at the Chicago boat show and someone had electric motors for sailboats. I believe COM-PAC has a Catboat that uses this set up. It looked like the bottom half of a trolling motor and bolted to the keel. When you were sailing the motor spun and recharged the batteries. There was a display next to COM-PAC and they had several motors on display but I can't remember the name. I'll see if I can find anything from the show.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2008 : 22:20:33

There is a 40 or 44 ft catamaran being marketed with an electric motor in each hull, powered by a single motor in the boat that also serves as the boat's house generator; not sure of the make but I think it is the Lagoon 44. Supposedly, while under sail, the props turn, charging the boat's batteries. Supposed to be very efficient.

Edited by - dmpilc on 10/29/2008 22:22:29

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2008 : 08:31:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by panhead1948
 There was a display next to COM-PAC and they had several motors on display but I can't remember the name.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Maybe [url="http://www.navagear.com/2007/06/torqeedo-electric-outboard-video-test/"]Torqeedo[/url]? They're the hot (pricey) new electric outboard. I think they have a model that uses the boat's battery.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2008 : 08:54:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by EAbrams
 I was thinking of you when I made my reply Dave. Was gonna make a joke about you bumping one of those boomers with your foot foot keel.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I do have a keel, and it draws 2'... but when a sub is approaching or leaving the Thames River, we pleasure boats have to stay far, far away.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2008 : 09:33:32

Electric motors seem to have a lot of torque and fairly big props, and a friend of mine used an inexpensive trolling motor to drive a 23' sailboat. They become less effective in big waves and strong winds, and the battery has limited range, but in less challenging conditions, they're ok.

Another friend had to paddle his 28' 8,000 lb. full keel sailboat this summer, when the inboard quit and the wind died, and he got it up to about 2 kts, but it's not easy going, and it would have been impossible in strong winds or choppy seas.

It might be workable on a small lake, if the sailors are skilled enough to sail close to their docks and use their electric motors the rest of the way, but a novice sailor who is not a skilled boat handler is likely to have a hard time, and might have to anchor away from the dock until the conditions abate enough to motor the rest of the way in. If there's a sudden storm with a lot of wind, everyone is likely to have difficulty getting back into a slip.

Keep your anchor and oar at the ready, and don't sell your gas outboard until after the first year. If people have too many problems, the powers that be might change their minds about electric motors.

Personally, I'd attend any Town Hall meetings on the subject, raise my outboard over my head and shout..."Not from my cold, dead hands...!"

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2008 : 10:34:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 Personally, I'd attend any Town Hall meetings on the subject, raise my outboard over my head and shout..."Not from my cold, dead hands...!"

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'd be really impressed if you did that with a high-thrust Honda 8!

Edited by - on

Daren
1st Mate

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USA
81 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2008 : 13:19:01

Maybe you can drop in an electric motor? A bit expensive, but here you go:

http://www.elcoelectriclaunch.com/drives.htm

Elco's electric boat motors and charging systems are available to boat builders, dealers, and private owners. They can be specified for new hulls or retrofitted in most displacement type boats such as classic replicas, deck boats, dinghies, fishing boats, hunting and duck boats, launches, rowboats, skiffs, sailboats, work boats, or most any displacement hull up to 36 ft. in length.

Elco's reliable electric boat motors come in 2 to 10 HP range with single motor configurations. The drop-in motors are installed as a ratio drive with a pulley reduction system. The boat motors operate from 24 to 72 volts using shunt-wound DC motors and include controllers, chargers, side or top mounted throttle, and instrumentation combined to provide proven, reliable operation for years of trouble free, low cost service.

When comparing the requirements for an electric boat motor to that of an existing diesel or gasoline engine, a rule of thumb is that an electric boat motor will need one half the HP of the engine that it is replacing. Electric boat motors are high torque across the speed range and do not have the parasitic loads (pumps, gears, etc.) of a gasoline or diesel engine so the HP required from an electric motor is less.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2008 : 08:01:17

An Elco motor upgrade would cost more than I paid for the boat!!!

Edited by - on

jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2008 : 15:07:36

I used a 12 volt 55 pound thrust trolling motor on my MacGregor 26 foot water ballast and that was adequate in winds under 10 mph. Before that I borrowed a 33 pound thrust electric and found it insufficient in anything but low wind conditions. I also used the 55 pounder on my Catalina 250 briefly. For a Catalina 25 or 250 I would recommend at least a 55 pound thrust electric. My guesstimate is that 55 pounds thrust is roughly equivalent to a 3 hp gas engine. Expect about one hour of use on a typical marine battery. Golf cart batteries would be a better choice.

Edited by - jbkayaker on 11/19/2008 15:11:15

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