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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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poptop

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MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/23/2002 : 03:10:30

Hi All,
The admrial and I went out today for a nice early evening sail and she asked me a question that I have read here before. I told here I would ask again, because I'm not sure there was a definitive answer.
Can you sail with the pop top open. I know I was told that is a no no. But I have the std. rig and the boom is above the pop top. Is it just a safety issue, because if a large sea comes over you could get flooded. We do lake sailing and even the biggest motor boat on our tiny lake doesn't make that big a wake<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>.
I know that the boom vang is in the way, but for the occasional sail it could be loosened and perhaps a bungy cord used to make sure the top doesn't crash down.
Well, what should I tell her.

PS I found at OSH replacement handles with brass nuts with just two wings. From an earlier post someone mentioned using velcro to hold them up and out of the way. These provide a nice flat surface for mounting the velcro tape. Havent done it yet though.

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

n/a
deleted

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163 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2002 : 09:01:30

I recommend not leaving it up underway. Unless you rig something as a preventer for it, the only thing holding it up is the J hook at the mast. If you have to go forward and inadvertently put any pressure on the raised top, this hook CAN slip and the pop top will fall with a great deal of force.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2002 : 09:40:49

I agree with CW... A preventer (such as a line around the mast from the forward legs) is a good idea even at rest--a stray wake or a misstep in the boat could cause a very dangerous collapse. But a line rigged that way could slip down the leg as the top falls back. One contributor here detaches his vang from the mast and hooks it to the back of the poptop as a preventer--probably the best I've heard of.

An interesting compromise is the foam "noodle" idea somebody posted a while back--the swimming toys you can buy at places like Walmart, laid between the cabintop and the poptop to lift it a few inches and provide some air below. That should be safe under sail in mild conditions.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - dave bristle on 09/23/2002 12:39:11

Edited by - on

jellyfish
Navigator

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USA
171 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2002 : 11:35:19

that is me that uses the vang run under the top and hooked to the cabin top. which brings me to the next statement. if the wind is light enough that you dont need the boom vang and it is rigged in this manner, you are probally ok. otherwise dont do it. the only time I leave the pop top open while the boat is underway is motoring or drifting along on very light winds!

last weekend while preparing for the hurricane I raised the poptop for just a moment without securing it. something I never do, if I raise it I secure it. well true to form the second I turned by back it fell and hit me in the head and almost knocked me out, thank God my fingers were not in the way.

make sure it is secure!

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2002 : 12:37:36

Jellyfish: Were you using the hook? I agree with you, but am just curious... I guess removing the vang from the boom and running it under is a better hookup than what I said earlier (not correctly remembering your approach).

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

n/a
deleted

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125 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2002 : 13:11:21

Hey Pop tpo guys......Catalina Direct has a new product which is simply a spring or gas loaded shock absorber ( just like on the hatchback of your pinto, or other inexpensive foreign station wagon)
They seel them in sets with exact installation instructions. The purpose is to "assist" in lifting your pop top and keeping it UP! Check their website. your welcome.

Edited by - on

jellyfish
Navigator

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USA
171 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2002 : 13:31:08

actually Dave, I hook it in the eye that hold the lock when the top is latched to the top batter board.

Gclarke, thanks: I am aware of the "spring loaded" deal. there are so many things ahead of that on the list it will have to wait awhile!

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2002 : 14:50:19

OK, I've now heard some say it's OK in light winds, only while motoring, or I think someone said not at all. I have had problems with the lid falling if not attached with a line so I do understand that. I'm having problems viusalizing the noodle thing. Do the noodles go around the risers, like insulation on a pipe, or are you using them as a spacer with the lid most of the way down, or are they there in stead of the risers?
does anyone sail with it up at anyother time or do you all drop then while underway?
Thanks

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2002 : 16:08:49

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I'm having problems viusalizing the noodle thing....
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Well, this wasn't my idea, but as I understood it, the noodles are used as spacers so that the pop-top is raised by approximately the diameter of a noodle. I'd guess that their sponginess contributes to keeping them in place, and apparently their diameter is just about right for adding headroom and ventilation. I haven't tried it, but it sounds good to me. I'd reserve judgement on sailing with it--we often pound through some huge stinkpot wakes.

We keep the top down and latched under way. It's just too heavy and has too far to fall to take chances with--somebody could get badly hurt, and a few (like Jellyfish) have reported scary incidents over the years. Imagine a child standing on a settee with his/her hands and arms over the edge of the opening... No, let's not imagine it. <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - dave bristle on 09/23/2002 16:13:50

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ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2002 : 18:19:52

New Guy, know nothing...But with my 81 I inherited the original owners pamphlet, from 1st owner, it says you can sail with the poptop up ONLY in light air. Since mine has only been erected once--at time of purchase, to demonstrate, I have no experience, however, that is a damned heavy sucker, all that an old crock like me can do to lift it, and I will say that after fifty years of the unexpected on the water, the only way I would sail with that thing UP would be with an absolutely fail-safe way to KEEP it up. The noodles sound nifty, by the way, ron sr sk sw fl Orion

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2002 : 03:26:58

Right now it is kind of accademic, we were told the other day that the lake will get its annual draining starting the first of Oct. Meaning the season is over at our little lake. The only sailing will be on trips, perhaps Montery next week end.
Think I will have the top up only on motoring trips with light to no wind.
Thanks all that replied

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2002 : 08:39:13

Hi Matt,Brigitte,

I've never sailed on a lake and the idea of an annual draining raises some questions. Like why? Like where do they put the water? I have a problem draining the hottub, just 1000 gallons, but a job none the less.

Val on "CALISTA" #3936

Val Bisagni

Edited by - on

Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2002 : 17:31:43

Val, The small lake Matt refers to is a distribution lake for a large irrigation district. Here in Central California water is king. Anyway, at the end of irrigation season the lake is lowered to a level below the control gates and the irrigation canals are drained for maintenance and safety. The small lake Matt is on isn't really completely drained, but it is far too shallow to sail on. The marina is high and dry.

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2002 : 17:37:31

Matt and Ed:

If they have any extra water, we could always use some extra down here!

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2002 : 20:37:26

can't imagine sailing with the top up, but we used to motor with it up all the time. These days we just don't motor as much as we used to...

Doug - #1913 Noeta

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2002 : 02:50:18

I forgot when lake yosemite was built, pre 1940's, but as Ed said its primary reason is for irrigation. The lake is about 1/2 to 3/4 miles wide by about 2 long, at least I think that what it is. We have about 80 families in the club, not all with boats and not all boats in slips belong to club members. The Merced irragation district, MID, which owns the lake gets tons of $$$$ to drain it during the winter as emergency flood control. No matter that a few years ago much of Merced was flooded no water has ever been diverted to the lake. With the new UC Merced in its inital faze there has been a rumor that they may keep the lake full longer, or year round. Not holding my breath on that one though.
Also as Ed said not all water is removed. The club uses this time to repair old and build new docks. Last year a few members had a dingy race series set up, I don't know how successful it was.
During the season May to Oct, give or take, our club puts on a regatta, and a barbeque as well as the thrusday night race. As a group we take some week end trips, beginniing of Oct some of the members are going to Montery, put in at Moss Landing and sail to Montery. The admrial gave me permission to go without her, but I would feel too guilty leaving her with the kids.
Ed, Brigitte still coments on our day sail with you as one of her most favorite sailing experiences. She loved being out on your lake and is toying with the idea of winter there. I think her favorite part was the hail that came down on your biminiee (sp?). I think she will opt for that week end trip when it comes around again. She says Hi too.

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2002 : 08:35:50

Ed,Matt,

Thanks for the education re lake maintenance, wow. Do the fishstay with the lake or go with the water? I suppose all larger boats haul for maintenance as well. I live on a sandbar 127 miles long with the sound to the north and bays and the Atlantic Ocean to the south. New York City to the west and Montauk Point to the east. It's hard to imagine ones sailing environment being drained but your description helped. Thanks Val on "CALISTA" #3936
Patchogue,N.Y.

Val Bisagni

Edited by - on

Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2002 : 20:23:10

Matt, your little lake was dug out with mule and fresno plow. It was completed in 1888. There is a tremendous amount of history involved here. Poor Richard G., the water that no longer flows through the lake in the fall and winter now goes down the Merced River whose head waters are Yosemite Valley and the rest of the park. This is all due to the rights of the fish who annually swim up the local rivers to spawn. Never fear, God gives us enough water to make most everybody happy year around.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2002 : 02:36:17

Ed,
A month or so ago we were visiting with Dwight Wiggley and he had a small book with photos of the lake being dug, as well as San Luis Res. The book was special to him because the property use to be in his family.

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

gerdo
Navigator

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107 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2002 : 09:27:15

This weekend just installed the pop top lift kit from Catalina Direct. It is unbeliveable the diffence. I recommend it highly. I installed it without stepping the mast. Their directions are to step the mast because you move the pop top past the mast to attached the pistons. I compressed the pistons with a car jack and put plumbers tape around them. Mounted the brackets to pop top and deck attached the compressed pistons and cut the tape. It lifts so easily now, I was killing my back lifting it. It is acutally harder to close that open. The pistons are incrediblly strong. Whole project took about an hour.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2002 : 12:34:55

Very interesting, Gerdo... That could be the solution for those who want to sail with it up. I agree, it's a load! I'll think about that system for when I do new standing rigging--the mast will probably stay up till then.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Randall
Navigator

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123 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2002 : 06:51:39

I too was intrigued by that project. Is there a downside? Do the lifts & brackets protrude into the cabin and interfere with safe movement around the cabin? I seem to remember a comment on the CD site about how they didn't get in the way on C22's, so I took that to mean that they might be in the way on C25's when the poptop was down.

Randall

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1775 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2002 : 09:04:13

I too was intrigued by that project. Is there a downside? - Randall

I talked to Catalina Direct a couple of weeks ago about their poptop lift kit. Since I like the "noodle" idea for propping the poptop open a little bit while sailing, I asked about how that might work if the lift kit is installed. Well, the "lifters" are an "all-or-none" proposition ... you either keep the poptop all the way down, or all the way up, but not in-between.

'Don't know if you'd consider that a "downside" or not, but it's something to consider. I think I'm going to get a lift kit sooner or later, but I'm busy with other things right now ... it's on the back burner.

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"

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gerdo
Navigator

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107 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2002 : 16:07:43

No downside to me. Brackets and pistons are not in the way. Yes it is all the way up or all the way down. It goes up so easy it is actually harder to bring it down than to put it up. There is a good bit of pressure against the mast. The pistons top out at straight up then compress a little as the pop top comes against the mast. therefore the forward pressure.

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