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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

buying a new/used mast

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MiNO
1st Mate

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USA
32 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/25/2009 : 17:18:03

I just did a rough measurement of my mast and the height came to 26'4 inches. This is from the top to the bottom.

I think it is supposed to be 29' or 31' (short/tall). Besides the decrease in sail area, how much of an effect to you think this has on performance?

Do you recommend I buy a new/used mast and how can I get it shipped?
Thanks

Edited by - on

Tom Gauntt
Navigator

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204 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2009 : 18:04:37

Mino, I'm not sure where you are, but txbigfoot has a complete rig for sale at a great price. I think he's around Houston. The Catalina Owner Manual lists the mast extrusions as 28' for the standard rig and 30' for the tall rig. Is it possible your current mast was a replacement from another boat? Good luck getting a mast shipped. I've never done it, but depending on the distance, you might be able to get a "back haul" deal and save drachmas.

Good luck,
Tom

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4311 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2009 : 18:16:01

txbigfoot is located in Austin, TX

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2009 : 22:10:42

My tall rig mast is 30 ft. I measured it. Can't speak to S/R masts, but I also believe that it is supposed to be 28' long. Sounds like you may have a non-standard or replacement mast. Do you feel it is not performing properly?
If you replace the mast, you'll need to replace all of the standing rigging too because your present rigging won't be long enough..

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2009 : 22:32:24

Kurt,
Since you're in New Orleans, there are probably still masts available from Katrina / Rita in yards around the city, and Galveston isn't a horrible drive from there. I know this sounds sort of ghoulish, but it's practical.

Edited by - on

MiNO
1st Mate

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USA
32 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2009 : 22:56:41

Thanks everyone.

Yes, I am pretty sure the mast I have is a replacement from another boat. Tom, what is a "back haul" deal?

The reason I discovered that my mast was not the correct length is because I was in the process of looking for a new main with reefing. I have never purchased a sail before, but I am worried it might cost more to get a main sail because it will have to be a different size.

I will ask around town to see if anyone has any masts for sail. I'm not sure where they actually took all the stuff from Katrina. When I saw them hauling out boats, they were crushing them up and throwing them in huge dumpsters. I'm not sure they salvaged much of it.

I'm not sure how I would get a mast to New Orleans from Austin, Tx.

-Kurt

Edited by - on

britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2009 : 04:46:12

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I'm not sure how I would get a mast to New Orleans from Austin, Tx.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Got a boat trailer?

Paul

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2009 : 08:47:27

Our boat is standard rig. The mast (when laid on deck) only overhangs the ends of the boat by a couple of feet.

You only need to transport the mast to Galveston anyway...

Sail to Galveston, lose your mast, and get a new one, or Lash the new mast to the deck, and sail home then step it. I assume you have enough time to sail that far - Man I wish I has that kind of water nearby, I might never come home.

Edited by - on

mlg3733
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118 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2009 : 08:58:07

Going to the trouble of replacing the mast in order to replace the main seems counterproductive, especially if you are trying to save on the cost of the sail itself. Liberty Sails in Philly will build you a sail based on your specifications, and a about the price of a standard sail, check them out.

Edited by - on

MiNO
1st Mate

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USA
32 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2009 : 08:58:54

Unfortunately I do not have a trailer nor do I have the time to sail to Texas.

Maybe there is a boat transportation service that could do it if they were passing through.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2009 : 09:00:48

If the mast was changed, the step (or tabernacle) may have been changed too. The SR mast is 28'. I'm wondering if you got the sails from the other boat as well--the jib/genoa will have to be smaller--not just the main.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2009 : 10:25:06

MiNO - You miss the point - you don't have time - you have to MAKE time! Tell your boss that he will benefit from the increased health and productivity that comes with time to de-stress. Tell your wife that you'll miss her deeply but that distances makes the heart grow fonder, besides you're SAVING her money, remember! Get a parrot and a dog to keep you company and go make the passage. You'll come home with more than a mast. Maybe a mast and an eyepatch!

I've almost talked myself into sailing to Texas to get a new mast. Is the Mississippi still running?

Edited by - on

MiNO
1st Mate

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USA
32 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2009 : 21:13:17

Dave, the sails on my boat do not even fit properly. The foot of my main sail is a little too big. I just bought the boat on Jan. 2nd from a guy who probably got it for free because it was a little messed up from Katrina. It is my guess that he slapped a mast on it along with a main and a genoa.

I didn't give it the best look over before I purchased it with a friend of mine. There area a few areas that need re-glassing around the seam where the top sides meet the main. There is a lot of areas that need attention. I think the best option for me is to keep the mast and have a new main sail made for the boat.

Can someone explain what the "SR" is? The Mauri Pro sailing website lists dimensions for 3 different cat 25 model: CB TM WK. Just curious, does anyone know what they stand for?
Thanks again everyone..

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4311 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2009 : 22:00:00

When a trucking company delivers a load in one direction and needs to get a truck back to base without being empty it's called a back haul. Example, if the driver is trying to get back home without running empty he will many times take any kind of a load no matter what he's getting paid just so he can cover his expenses. This is when you can get some really good deals on a load.

Say he gets paid $1,500.00 to haul a load from New Orleans to Houston. If he gets to Houston and hasn't been able to get a return load lined up by the time he gets unloaded he's facing making a 400 mile unpaid trip home (truckers normally only get paid for loaded miles). He may decide to accept a $600.00 load just so he can cover his fuel and maintenance expenses. If you can get him to haul your mast back for $600.00 you just got a good deal!!!

If his backhaul doesn't fill his truck he may try to get several small loads to fill out the truck. If he does this he will usually split the cost between the two or three people involved so you may be able to get your mast back for $200.00 instead of $600.00! Then you got a really, really good deal!!!

Abbreviations:

SR = Standard Rig - Standard length 28' mast
TR = Tall Rig - Taller than standard mast - 30'

FK = Fin Keel
SK = Swing Keel
WK = Wing Keel

Here are a few of the possible combinations. I believe (probably wrong!) over time they may have built every possible combination.

SR/SK = Standard Rig/Swing Keel
SR/WK = Standard Rig/Wing Keel --- This is what I have have!
TR/FK = Tall Rig/Fin Keel
TR/WK = Tall Rig/Wing Keel

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2009 : 09:41:36

Kurt,

You may save a lot of money by first having your boat inspected by a professional marine surveyor. If there are important structural problems you have already noticed, there may be others you can not easily see. Refitting sails or even getting a C-25 mast and perhaps some sails of the right size may be a waste of money if the boat needs other structural repairs to make it seaworthy.

On the other hand, if a surveyor tells you there is no significant damage, then it is up to you to decide what refitting/upgrades to do. And you'll feel much safer heading out into the Gulf on a C-25 you know is solid.

My survey cost $300, and I learned a lot about my 27 year old boat from him, including some significant issues with the hull and rigging that I have dealt with since then.

You can ask around at local marinas for good marine surveyors in your area. I think you would be wise to get a survey done.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1788 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2009 : 12:41:47

Regarding the mast, I would call either Catalina Yachts or Catalina Direct -- they both sell replacement extrusions -- and ask first what the price is (if I recall it's @$700.00 for extrusion) and HOW they would ship it incl;uding an estimate of how much. My guess is that yo would then have an idea of the cost to ship a mast and how best to do it. Also, you could call a boat transport company to see if when they next move a boat from where the mast is to your area how much to add just the mast.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2009 : 13:55:56

Inexpensive sails: (all three sell Rolly Tasker, and I've used all three with good results) They can probably build a sail to your specs, but it would be safer to have a local sailmaker come out and take measurements of your boat if you don't replace the mast with a C-25 stock mast.
The Sail Warehouse - Monterey, CA
National Sail Supply - Brooksville, FL (Dirk Sharland)
Island Planet Sails - in Oregon (Dave Benjamin)

As for getting a mast from Austin to New Orleans, linking up with a boat hauler already making the trip would likely be your best bet. Also, locating a flat bed freight hauler coming your way from Austin might work, adding your mast to his load.

Edited by - dmpilc on 01/28/2009 11:40:31

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2009 : 14:02:54

This might sound odd, but are you absolutely sure it's a catalina 25???

What's the full hull number?

Paul

Edited by - on

Tom Gauntt
Navigator

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204 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2009 : 14:20:01

Regarding bigelowp's, post checking with Catalina and Catalina Direct. When I got my boat back last spring, she needed a boom (a previous owner took boom, sheets, blocks, all sails). I immediately got on the horn to CD to price a new boom. Now a boom is only around ten feet long whereas a mast is close to 30 feet long. It was going to cost almost twice as much to ship the boom from Catalina's factory than it was going to cost for the boom itself. Incidentally, I found a boom on Craig's list for $50 here in Annapolis. The other thing to remember is your current mast probably has standing rigging cut to fit. A new mast will call for new rigging and THAT will get real expensive, really fast.

I think you can go one of two ways:

1. Keep your current mast and buy (or have made) a sail to fit. There is a wonderful sail loft here in Annapolis called Bacon and Associates. Great folks run the place and can help you find a used sail that will fit your current rig. Just get a rough P and E measurement (P is basically the length of the sail against the mast, or luff, and E is the measurement of the sail against the boom, or foot. Bacon's has about 10,000 sails in stock from new to poor. You can search their database online at www.baconsails.com.

OR

2. You can acquire a new/used rig that is typical of a Catalina25. If I lived in LA and knew there was a complete Catalina 25 rig in Austin, I'd get the Catalina rig, but that's just me. Get on Craig's List and rent someones trailer. Take a day and drive over to txbigfoot (if he is still selling the mast) and be done with it. Dropping and putting up a new mast is not that big a deal and there are many great threads on this forum that will walk you through it.

Also, JohnP makes a great point. If you have severe core damage or problems where the hull meets the topside (the flange), you'd be well-served to get a professional's eye on it. A survey will tell you if you have some problems that are serious and it will give you piece of mind as well.

For every problem, there is a solution. When it comes to Catalina 25s, almost every problem has been discussed on this forum. It is a treasure-trove of wonderful information.

Best of luck and let us know what you decide!

Tom

C-25 TR/SK
3108 Windsong
Stevensville, MD

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2009 : 14:23:18

Kurt,
You really should get a survey. At the very least, you need to have somebody that has a Catalina 25 come and look at your boat. I wouldn't spend a dime on parts and repairs until you do that.

Catalina now has a manufacturing facility in Florida so, shipping might not be as much of an issue should you decide to get a new extrusion from them. Assuming, of course, that they stock a part for a boat that hasn't been manufactured for 20 years.

Edited by - on

MiNO
1st Mate

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USA
32 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2009 : 21:31:30

I've read through all the posts, and I am going to go back and re-read them again. Thanks so much for all the information and for taking the time to write them. The sail vendors and shipping information will be really useful.

I am having someone pull the boat out of the water this Friday and I am having it bottom painted. I wanted to do the work myself, but for some reason, here in New Orleans, the only place that will pull your boat out and let you work on it charges $20 a day + $300 to take it out. I work during the week and since I figure I would have it out for a month, it is cheaper to just have someone paint it. The place that is taking it out will let me work on it over the weekend, which I plan to do. My first project is replacing a gate valve on a through hull with a seacock.

If I can get that done, I will tackle the split in the fiberglass just below the toe-rail. It is about 8 inches long. I don't suspect there is any serious core damage, though I am not an expert. I plan to use west systems. There is also a cleat that was ripped out of the deck.

I will ask the yard I am taking it to about a survey. Thanks for the advice. I don't plan to make any big decisions concerning the mast/sails just yet.

-many thanks

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2009 : 06:10:23

If you call Catalina, they'll tell you the current maker of their spars which I believe is also local near to Largo Florida.

Paul

Edited by - on

MiNO
1st Mate

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USA
32 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2009 : 22:30:04

Thanks again everyone.
I wanted to make sure of my mast's dimension, so I measured it again today. It was between 26' 6" and 27' (I raised a line up the mast and measured that, hence the un-accurate measurement) So, I am short at least a foot. I think I will live with it for now. Though it would be nice to have the right size. I even found someone to haul the used mast from Austin to New Orleans for $350, so a used mast with rigging would cost $750. Not bad, but I think I can live without an extra foot. Just curious, does anyone know why Catalina made a tall and short rig? Is this a common thing?

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2009 : 08:45:26

It isn't altogether an uncommon thing for a boat to have more than one rigging option.

At the time the first C-25's came out there was a lot of debate between the merits of a high aspect ratio and low aspect ratio rig. Both had their proponents. Catalina developed both rigs for our boats. Smart business plan.

In practicality, a tall rig is (generally) better suited to inland waters. In lakes and coves, the wind tends to come down from over the tree line. The extra heigh lets the boat take advantage of air that is moving at a higher elevation.

The Short Rig is (generally) better suited to the open waters of large lakes (the Great Lakes) and the ocean. Since there is less structure that the wind will have to come down off of, the shorter rigged boats can gain the same power off a low aspect ratio rig.

Try googling "ocean Rigged" and "Aspect ratio sail" and you'll get a quick course on ahow all this plays out (and likely it will be better than my explanation here).

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2009 : 10:10:04

Come resale time, you might get a better price for the boat, and avoid all the questions of why it has an odd rig, if it is equipped with a standard mast and rigging. In the long run, it might just be worth the $750. buying sails later will be easier, too. If I had the $750 to spend, I would seriously consider doing it now while the parts are available. Then put your current mast rig up for sale or donate it to your local sailing club for spare parts.

Edited by - on

txbigfoot
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USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2009 : 18:33:58

Hey Mino, I can meet you halfway between austin and NO with the mast if yo are interested!

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