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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/05/2009 : 18:12:58

I have the opportunity to get an all-expense paid trip to Cabo San Lucas (one way) as long as I sail this baby back 850 miles to weather with a crew of 1 or maybe 2 in mid March.

http://columbiayachts.com/index.php

The coast of Baja CA is one of the most desolate and remote stretches of coast in the world. I would expect 20 knots of wind directly on the nose the whole way.

What'ca think?

I'd almost rather do it in my C25. I wasn't expecting a sportboat when I said OK. On the other hand, its just what I've been dreaming about ex. single handed transpac, etc.

I brag a lot about 2000 miles and 200 days at sea ... do I really have the right stuff to do this trip in 8 days non stop????

Funny that none of the crew racing down can do the bash home!

Indiscipline 1978 FK SR #398

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2009 : 18:24:39

The Columbia site says: <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">"The new Columbia 32 is configured for day sailing and buoy racing." <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Didn't say anything about <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> ....The coast of Baja CA is one of the most desolate and remote stretches of coast in the world. I would expect 20 knots of wind directly on the nose the whole way.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">or
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">have the right stuff to do this trip in 8 days non stop????
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">From what I've read from you and about you, I think you have the right stuff. I'm not so sure the boat does.

I wonder if the guy that offered this to you has already been turned down by a professional delivery captain.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2009 : 19:08:16

Boat is equipped to full ORC offshore standards - lifeboat, sat phone, SSB with weather fax, we'll have the use of a routing service. Skipper has done 4 transpacs, San Diego - Puerto Vallarta, and other blue water races.

Another shot

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5896 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2009 : 19:37:50

It's a neat boat, and looks like it'll be a fast ride, but 8 days non-stop with no auto-pilot and only 2-3 people to share the time at the helm, sounds like a grind, especially if there's no bimini, or other shelter from the sun.

Also, why does it have to be non-stop? If the owner is in a hurry for you to get the boat back by a certain deadline, that puts pressure on you and the crew to continue sailing, even in spite of severe weather. I don't get the impression that he's paying you enough to put your safety seriously at risk. I'd reach a clear understanding with him that, if the weather turns too bad, you're going to put in somewhere until it abates. If he isn't willing to accept that understanding, I wouldn't do it.

If he's ok with the safety first proviso, it sounds like fun. With your experience, you know how to organize your provisions and necessary equipment. You can do it.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2009 : 19:48:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Owners have excelled in offshore and coastal races, some in excess of 300 nautical miles. The boats have demonstrated their strength, durability and performance in wild ocean conditions and true wind speeds of 40 knots. The Columbia 32 Sport Yacht is a true pocket ocean racer.
-------------------------------------------------
While many of our owners enjoy offshore distance racing, we understand that this type of sailing and racing is not for everyone. Most sailing is done one afternoon at a time. And, most day sailors, buoy racers or even weekend cruisers just don’t require – and prefer not to have onboard – most of the equipment required for offshore racing.

There should be a Columbia that meets these sailors’ needs.

The new Columbia 32 is configured for day sailing and buoy racing.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So which one is it? If the latter (as in your picture), I think you need to re-think this...

First, besides your responsibility to come home to your wife and kids, as captain, you're responsible for the safety of your crew. Will you be equipped for that? Will your crew have any idea what they're getting into? This is blue water sailing--when weather arrives, there will likely be no place to hide--you'll just be out there in a bay boat.

Also, about that 850 miles. To weather... how many miles will that really be? Is eight days realistic? Or is it 10-12? Got an outboard? (A 6-hp and bracket are options for that 32-footer.) Got water? (Not built-in, I suspect.) Got storm sails? Replacement rudder? Places to sleep (with all sails, food, water, and gear aboard)?

The Sport Yacht does have some accommodations and a saildrive...

On the plus side, if you have thoughts about doing the Vendee, here's your chance to get a tiny taste. I won't be signing up. I think that boat should go home by truck.

EDIT: Your second picture is the Sport Yacht--maybe a bit more realistic.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/05/2009 19:58:26

JimB517
Past Commodore

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3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2009 : 19:59:48

The boat has a 7 hp diesel and sail drive. Carries 20 gallons fuel and 30 water. We'll add 2 jerry jugs. Has a hand cranked watermaker.

I am not the captain. The guy with the 4 transpacs is. I am crew.

Has a tiller pilot.

The push to wrap the voyage in 8 days is mine. I trulyy think we'll be waiting out weather somewhere.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2009 : 20:13:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 ...I'd reach a clear understanding with him that, if the weather turns too bad, you're going to put in somewhere until it abates.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It doesn't look to me like there are many places--maybe non for stretches of 200 miles or more--much longer when going to weather. Just desolate beaches.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2009 : 20:23:29

I did some quick math on this. An 850 mile trip with the wind on your nose works out to a bit over 1200 miles to be sailed. This assumes 45 degrees off the wind at 7 knots (hull speed with a 27' LWL). This works out to over 7 days (173 hours or so), about a week & five hours. That's sailing 24/7 at hull speed. If things go exactly right, 8 days will just barely be enough. If things go wrong, you may want some extra time in your back pocket.

Do the math with the actual polars of the boat, add in fudge factors for weather, crew exhaustion, currents, wind roses, etc. so you understand exactly what you're getting into.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2009 : 20:28:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 The push to wrap the voyage in 8 days is mine.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I question whether you can, regardless of weather (unless you end up on a reach most of the way). With wind on the nose, it appears you have over 1200 miles to sail.

Curmudgeon out.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2009 : 20:37:39

I have a book called the Baja Bash that outlines how to do it and where to stop, etc. on the coastal route. There is really only 1 fuel dock at Turtle Bay 450 miles up. They estimate 2 weeks to make the trip. There are several places to anchor along the way. 200 miles apart more or less.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2009 : 21:42:18

Hmmmm.... Nice ride! Rough accomodations and really a rough boat to do that kind of passage to weather in. Total displacement of 3600 lbs. makes it incredibly light, swing keel is 1650 lbs. which is similar to the C25, but this is a 32! Think cork! Think running off the wind to get an average VMG of 3 knots! No inboard on the Bash sounds like a bad idea, although I am sure that the purists will tar and feather me.

I'm with Dave, on a truck - but the other half of my brain says GO!

Seriously, there are few bailouts and quite frankly, I'd want $500 or more a day AND I would want to be able to bail out if conditions deteriorated AND get paid for my bailout time. I'd want the vessels recent survey, AND I'd want a rigger to go over it prior to departure. No dodger and no AutoPilot? Ooops! Make that $750 a day.

Evil side

: Chance of a lifetime! Get your ass handed to you under a schedule and live to tell a lot of stories! I've yet to post the real story on our unscheduled drop in to Savannah due to weather, but let me assure you that you have not lived life to it's fullest until you see your home slide sideways off of a 10 foot wave only to get bashed by the one behind it while kinda on our side.

The HEAVY duty hydraulic AP below decks could not handle it, so I hand steered for well over 3 hours with blinding spray making its way past the dodger, this is on a 39.5 footer! Wife checks in with Coasties and gives our position just for kicks - actually a good idea, but I was yelling WTF! from the cockpit

. We managed to run the diesel and motorsail against the chop until we regained our footing and got fresh weather data which indicated that either we were heading further offshore and into a gale or into Savannah. She is still sitting there as we did not get a decent weather window when we returned from our work trip in France and we only had a week to depart for Florida before heading to the Pacific NW.

Nevertheless, I loved every minute of getting my ass handed to me. Granted, more than 24 hours could be a bit rough. Off watches that night were hard, and we were whipped but exhilarated when we picked up our dock, and that was a 72 hour run, granted with a crew of 2. But we RARELY hand steer in big seas - big difference. I will often hand steer in light winds and calm seas to get that extra knot or so, and it is fun for the first day or so, but after that you'll be wishing you had a wind vane or something.

Leecloths are a must. Forget cooking unless that racer has some sort of magical galley. I'd still consider it, as I think you have what it takes, just looks like a rough ride. There's a reason why the folks going down aren't coming back!

sten

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2009 : 21:49:15

ooops, you posted while I was typing... OK tiller pilot is good, 7HP? Single cylinder? Transpac cap'n makes me feel better... GO!

sten - the other curmudgeon out!

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2009 : 22:25:05

Jim - there are times when discretion is the better part of valor. This may be one of them. Personally, I'd pass on the trip (and I have 2 Gulf crossings under my belt - including 3 days in a tropical storm).
We need you in the Assocn. big time!!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2009 : 09:09:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 ...Total displacement of 3600 lbs. makes it incredibly light, swing keel is 1650 lbs. which is similar to the C25, but this is a 32! Think cork!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Well, the Sport Yacht model is 4200, also with 1650 ballast in a bulb on a 7' dagger-board--still a cork, but at least with a longer righting moment than a C-25 (good for planing). It has a bit more of an interior, with a little free-standing sink, a head under one of the berths

, and water. The little diesel is under a hatch in the cockpit sole (with an open transom)--hmmmm... Neat sled, but the diametric opposite of a Blue Water boat. Don't hit a kelp bed with that skinny bulb keel while planing!

I can hear the owner... "We'll do a screaming reach all the way down Baja, and then I'll hire some poor suckers to pound all the way back."

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2009 : 11:17:50

Best case scenario
- A few wind shifts away from the NW to ease the trip
- Tiller pilot doesn't break
- No storms or heavy seas
- Fun conversations and good times

Worst case scenario
- The boat is disabled and you get rescued by Mexican authorities
- Nothing else I want to mention

Seems hard to pass up!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2009 : 12:07:13

A good friend's post-race delivery...
------------------------------

A smooth sail suddenly disintegrates into a rough passage

Published on 6/14/2002 in the New London Day

It seemed like a trip to paradise.

Fly from Boston to Antigua. Board a 39-foot sloop with all the amenities. Set the autopilot, crack a novel and let the Eastern Trade Winds caress your cheeks as you click off the 14 days and 1,530 miles to Montauk Point, N.Y.

But, as Craig Bush readily admits, he broke the cardinal rule: “Don't be on a schedule.” He had promised his wife, Amy, a retired school nurse, that he'd be back home in Mystic to celebrate their 35th wedding anniversary on May 20.

Craig, a 57-year-old retired IBM sales executive, had felt a bit under the weather when he flew out of Logan International Airport on April 29. When he landed in Antigua he was met by his friend, Walker Vought, a 60-year-old retired stockbroker and owner of the Cal 39 sloop Ginny, named after Walker's wife.

Now Craig was feeling worse. “I had half a burger and half a beer,” he recalled with a wince. His temperature had risen to 103.

Walker had asked Craig to help him sail the yacht back to Connecticut after Walker's wife had had to return to Southport to care for her aging mother. Craig had figured that after a day provisioning they'd get under way.

But upon boarding the boat, he learned that the diesel auxiliary engine was still being rebuilt by a native mechanic. Not that Craig was ready to depart.

He had the flu. So off he goes to find a clinic. There a doctor prescribes antibiotics. The fee is steep, as steep as the waves that will be building in the gale they will encounter seven days out of Antigua.

Ginny, with no shore power, was “Med moored” with her anchor out and her stern tied to the mangroves. It was Antigua Race Week and more than 200 yachts had jostled into English Harbor. It was party time.

As the young crews chugged the grog, the loud slamming music from native bands blared across the harbor starting at 10 p.m. and continuing until 3 in the morning. Booming fireworks flecked the sky.

“I'm sick and in no mood to party,” Craig recalled lamely, relating the story in the present tense. The party went on for two nights.

Gradually he began to feel better so that a day later he could spend three hours scrubbing the bottom to rid Ginny of all species of aquatic life. That accomplished, skipper and crew got a taxi and provisioned the yacht. It was May 7.

“We're off!” an enthusiastic Crag e-mailed his wife. “1,500 miles to Montauk. Beautiful sail!” Roaring along, with all sails set, they logged 160 miles the first day.

Amy had tried to reply but her first three e-mails were returned undelivered. As Craig recalled, “She thought we'd sailed off the end of the earth.”

So Amy contacted Craig's niece's husband, Jeff Cochand, a computer consultant, in Manchester-by-the-Sea, Mass. Jeff determined that Walker's SailMail e-mail service had been discontinued because the bill hadn't been paid. Arrangements were made to reinstate the service for the cruise.

“We were having a fabulous sail,” Craig continued with a glib grin, “but the wives think we've been sunk!” Meanwhile, Ginny is roaring along under sunny skies with the winds 20 to 25 knots out of the East.

They're averaging 150 to 170 miles a day.

Near Bermuda on the sixth day, conditions changed. The wind had backed to the south and they hoisted the spinnaker. For nine hours, they galloped downwind.

Then the wind died.

Off and on they had been running the rebuilt diesel at idle speed to charge the batteries. Now they were motoring at high rpms. “The engine was very smelly,” Craig related. “During the night the oil pressure dropped from 80 to 20 and it was down three quarts of oil.”

Craig fired off an e-mail to pal Joe Callaghan, his neighbor and fellow sailor back in Mystic, asking him to check the symptoms with a mechanic.

The diagnosis was an oil cooler leak. Oil had been seeping out of the oil cooler and into the coolant passages and mixing with the exhaust, but only at higher revolutions. They had six quarts of oil on board, enough to cruise for 18 hours. “We considered going into Bermuda,” said Craig, “but we decided to press on.”

The wedding anniversary loomed.

The next day, Amy received a brief e-mail. “Under double-reefed main and storm jib,” came the cryptic message.

Ginny was in a gale. Winds were clocking a steady 35 knots. “It was uncomfortable,” Craig recalled a couple of weeks later as he relaxed in the cockpit of his cutter, Ptarmigan. “The boat was getting beat up pretty badly. We were taking waves into the cockpit from the following sea. We were hunkered down below. The boat was on autopilot.”

As Craig crept into the cockpit to adjust the autopilot, a wave broke over the transom and washed into the cabin, covering the cabin sole with 2 inches of water. The electric bilge pump clicked on. More water was coming in but not from breaking waves.

Craig and Walker methodically began checking the through-hull fittings. “We were taking on 2 gallons a minute,” Craig said. “We couldn't find the leak. We had a hole in the boat.” The waves were now 8 to 10 feet with a huge sea running. That, combined with the sickening smell of diesel oil and the frantic activities, had tired the two men. They pulled the bilge pump switch every half hour and kept a visual watch.

The next morning, somewhat revived, they located a leaking through-hull fitting in the V-berth. The previous owner had put a patch around a leaky head fitting but it had delaminated and water was pouring in. Craig and Walker fashioned a patch that slowed the flow.

What's that rule? If things can get worse, they will? The next day, several waves broke in the cockpit, shorting out the engine ignition switch. The ignition was now inoperable and to start the engine they had to use jumper cables.

Then an inner forestay fitting parted, which meant they couldn't fly a storm jib. They had to reef the roller furling genoa. Then the panels on the high-teck laminated jib came apart.

As Craig enumerated, “We had a leak, engine problem, engine-control problem, a parted fitting and a jib problem.” And they were still about 500 miles from Montauk Point. “But,” Amy interjected, sitting comfortably on the bridge deck of their Mystic 30 and patting their black Lab, Lucy, “they had plenty of food!”

Craig had been faithful with his e-mails to his wife but he didn't reveal any problems. Now in the Gulf Stream about 350 miles south of Montauk, Amy got an inkling of what was going on.

“Triple-reefed main and reefed jib,” came the e-mail message. “Seven and a half knots. Wind 30 out of the southwest.”

Craig tried another e-mail but couldn't get through. The wind, still blowing a gale, had veered to the northwest. Using Walker's ham radio, they called a ham operator in Alabama and asked him to relay a message to Amy's brother, Dave Bates, a ham operator in Wainscot, L.I. The message was: “Delayed a few days. Everything fine. Details later.”

The Alabama ham, however, called an Oklahoma ham to relay the message.

He, in turn, called Dave on the phone collect and got the message garbled. Dave, concerned, now called his sister. A gale had been forecast in the New England area and Amy was worried.

Nearing Montauk, the wind was now on Ginny's nose and it was taking a terrific pounding. It was raining. When Craig and Walker put on dry clothes, they were wet again in minutes.

The winds were howling at 45 knots as Ginny beat between Montauk and Block Island. The rough seas, combined with the engine oil fumes, were making them seasick.

Craig was dreaming of a hot bath, clean sheets and one of his wife's gourmet meals. When they awoke on Sunday, they could see Block Island and as they headed west, the wind abated to 15 to 20 knots.

Craig got off an e-mail, estimating their arrival at Ram Island Yacht Club in Noank at between 2 and 5 p.m. Amy made arrangements with Customs and immigration officials. Ginny arrived at 2:15 p.m. to a welcoming committee.

“I was so relieved to be home,” Craig muttered, looking up at the heavens.

He had made the 35th wedding anniversary with a day to spare.

Would he do the trip again? “You bet, help a friend and have a once-in-a-lifetime experience, who wouldn't? However if you ask if I will do it again, I say probably not just for the fun of it.”
----------------------------------------------------------------

Note: My wife and I were trying to cheer up Craig's wife daily throughout the ordeal. But Craig is a lot like Capt. Sully--almost impossible to rattle and very resourceful. Walker was awfully lucky to have him aboard. db

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2009 : 12:11:21

Realistic scenario:

We leave Sunday morning and round Cabo Falso in 30 knots of wind and 12 foot seas on the nose and it takes 12 hours to go 10 miles and break out.

We limp into Bahia Magdalena already out of fuel and try to get a panga to run 25 miles to San Carlos and bring us 20 gallons. Cost $200. We are held there by weather for 3 days.

After 8 days we arrive in Turtle Bay halfway home and I'm already out of vacation time. Fuel up, buy food and on we go. Or I get off and take a bus north.

We get beaten back 2 or 3 times trying to break out around Cedros Island. The convergence zone and the northern end regularly turns back 100 foot sport fishers.

10 - 12 days we arrive Ensenada. Tiller pilot is broke. Out of water, food, and fuel. Every peice of clothing is wet. My wife drives down to bring us dry things. Day of rest is needed.

One more long run under power brings us to San Diego after about 15 days.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2009 : 12:15:09

That would be enough to make me want to buy a stinkpot and hang out with Bristle.

Truck it!

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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1771 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2009 : 13:03:39

hmmmm..... Very good accessment Jim! You have my blessing as you know the risks and you know reality. Bristle's friend violated several of the rules for safe passage and paid the price. We too have violated the schedule rule and found that we inevitably get our asses handed to us. The Cal 39 is a good boat in my opinion, and the number of problems that passage encountered should serve as a reminder that we can be one with the sea, but we are its bitch, not its master! However, "Craig" would go again, just "not for the fun of it."

Adventure lies in the basic premise of leaving your normal world behind and riding around in another. This is a really cool opportunity and the gear list, Captain - verify the TransPacs - and crew are knowledgeable to the best of our knowledge, and if managed safely the vessel is a good sled. If I was 60, I'd say no. Since I'm 43 and have been there and too want more, albeit not too much, I would be tempted.

Having a bumpy ride on a C25 kinda prepares you for this sorta thing anyway. Think about it, I learned more about dealing with heavy seas and heavy weather in my C25 than in the Pearson 30 and the Frers 30 I owned. This prepared me well for some of the deliveries I have done and for extended cruising under all sorts of conditions. Jim has already been about, he knows what he is doing. Actually he is doing more with his C25 than anyone else here in terms of offshore work. I say GO!

sten

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2009 : 13:10:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 That would be enough to make me want to buy a stinkpot and hang out with Bristle.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I hang out with sailors... On cruises, I just give them a few hours head-start.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2009 : 13:15:27

Jim: If you "get off" (after using up your vacation time), where does that leave the skipper? Will he know about your time limits in advance?

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2009 : 13:52:50

Well, I would not get off unless it was not safe, I would just be on leave without pay.

Also its been 2 days and they have not contacted me so who knows?

Probably I'll get a call March 12 saying can you leave tomorrow and I won't be able to do it.

They did this race before and trucked her home.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 02/06/2009 : 15:56:08

Call them! Get on that bad boy! DO IT!

sten

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2009 : 17:25:27

Mark Twain said: <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> There is probably no pleasure equal to the pleasure of climbing a dangerous Alp; but it is a pleasure confined strictly to people who can find pleasure in it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Just thought is somehow fit here.

Edited by - John Russell on 02/06/2009 17:26:05

johnsonp
Admiral

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Response Posted - 02/06/2009 : 17:29:25

JimB517

Realistic scenario: How else do you get long distance sailing experience if you don't go long distance sailing?
Have a fantastic trip......

paulj

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 02/06/2009 : 17:43:56

You go long distance sailing on a boat designed for long distance sailing not one designed for buoy racing.

Edited by - on

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.