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Attaching jib sheets with roller furling -again

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C25Guy
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/20/2009 : 18:12:19

There was a thread last month about how to attach jib sheets to the jib. Seems like the cow hitch was most common with roller furling. I've got a furler on my boat and currently have a cow hitch on my nice new length of jib sheet. I'd like to store the sheet(s) inside the cabin and out of the sun, however. Does anybody do this with a furler?

I was thinking about cutting the sheet in two and tieing it with bowlines. After every sail, untie them and stow. Maybe use a single piece of lighter line from the clew of the rolled up sail to the whisker pole mount on the mast to keep the sail rolled up? I do like that the cow hitch doesn't get caught up too much when tacking and once I cut the line, there's no making it one again....

Alan
"Maggie Mae"
C-25 #2815 SR/SK

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2009 : 19:53:20

We use two sheets and use bowlines. We leave our sheets on all the time. Removing them would defeat one of the main reasons we use a furler - to make going sailing easier.

From when we arrive at the dock to when we are out of the slip is less than five minutes. Ditto for the return. This makes sailing very easy and the result is we go out 3-4 nights after work each week all season long.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 02/20/2009 19:55:44

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2009 : 21:34:07

We leave our cow hitch and sheets in place.

Edited by - on

pastmember
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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2009 : 21:34:33

Line is cheap.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2009 : 23:11:25

My next jib sheet:

Splice a loop near the midpoint of the sheet with line that will just pass through the grommet or ring of the sail when doubled, splice a another piece of the line on the other side of the midpoint and finish it with a crown or similar large knot or eye splice it around a decorative carving. The loop and knot should be sized to only allow the knot to be snugly passed through the loop when the loop is fully inserted through the ring and the line should be long enough that tension is only applied to the loop regardless of which end of the sheet is hauled. The purpose of the single line is just to prevent the bight from slipping out. This is a slight variation of a very old technique that has proven to be secure, easily removed, and shows nothing to hang up. I intend to do core to core splices for maximum strength.

edit: line is cheap and pretty uv resistant, I just enjoy ropework

Edited by - Dave5041 on 02/20/2009 23:13:39

pastmember
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Response Posted - 02/21/2009 : 06:42:21

cringle

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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1771 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2009 : 07:30:17

Moo!

Scow is nautical, cow hmmm, still looking.

Edit: I just so happen to have the International Maritime Dictionary on board - yes, we are afloat again - and looked up this bovine knot. Sure enough it is in there. "Cow Hitch. A knot by which the ends of rigging lanyards are secured. It consists of two half hitches in which the ends come out parallel and in the same direction. Also called lanyard hitch, deadeye hitch." Books still have a place in the internet world. I never knew a bunch of this. 

The real reason to leave your sheets attached with a number of turns around the sail is to prevent it from unfurling during a blow. Even a scrap of headsail will provide enough leverage to work stuff loose. Seen it a few times.

Multiple wraps around the sail and then cleated off well and having the roller furling line cleated off will prevent this very destructive problem. Some have even drilled a hole in the drum and installing a pin to prevent the drum from unfurling.

sten

Edited by - redviking on 02/21/2009 07:40:23

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2009 : 08:21:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by C25Guy
 I'd like to store the sheet(s) inside the cabin and out of the sun, however. Does anybody do this with a furler?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5361 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2009 : 10:44:01

Why not take a short piece of 3/8" or 1/2" line, about 24" or 60cm long, and pass it through the cringle and tie it on with a bowline, and leave it a bit slack.

Grab the sheet at midpoint and double it by folding it. Make a few wraps with the short piece of line like whipping around the doubled end and tie it off with a hitch through the resulting loop on the sheet. This prevents slippage.

This will replace a heavy brass snap shackle that some folks use. And it will accommodate those who want to remove their jib sheets between sails.

Then use the short line attached to the cringle to securely wrap around the jib and the furler.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 02/21/2009 : 11:21:58

We had friend with a C22. To make rigging up the hank-on jib easier he added metal carabiners to each sheet to attach to the jib. When it was time to douse the headsail he would send his wife up to do the work. She got whacked a couple of times with the carabineers and wisely demanded a different approach. I still see boats at our marina with metal hardware on the jib and it amazes me. Some people just don't want to learn to tie knots I guess.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2009 : 12:27:04

Yup--that's no place for metal hardware... it can damage the shrouds as well as the foredeck crew.

I agree with Sten--the sheets are the best protection against wind damage to the sail. Just tying a line (or worse, a bungee) around it won't prevent it from unfurling. A few wraps of the sheets, and then cleating them off with some tension, will do it in all but hurricane conditions. When I knew there were no high winds in the forecast, I'd leave them a little loose so the birds wouldn't use them as an overnight perch/potty.

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crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2009 : 12:45:15

Dave--I have been using your sketch for two years now. I think it's called a Dutch toggle. It works wonderfully well, and I have had no trouble at all with it. Took about a half hour to rig. Mine is different in that I made the bight out of the jib sheet itself with a good hard seizing, but the principle is the same. Fit is critical, as too tight will be difficult to use and too loose might (or might not) be subject to deterioration and loosening from flogging. Which, of course, WE do not allow.

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John Russell
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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2009 : 14:06:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 Moo!

The real reason to leave your sheets attached with a number of turns around the sail is to prevent it from unfurling during a blow. Even a scrap of headsail will provide enough leverage to work stuff loose. Seen it a few times.

Multiple wraps around the sail and then cleated off well and having the roller furling line cleated off will prevent this very destructive problem. Some have even drilled a hole in the drum and installing a pin to prevent the drum from unfurling.

sten
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I had this happen to me 2 seasons ago AND I HAD THE SHEETS WRAPPED AROUND the furled jib. Fortunately, it blew out at the seams and was readily repaired by a local loft in just a few days.

Since my CDI furler has an internal halyard, the original jib halyard is available to wrap around the furled jib in the opposite direction so that it overlaps the sail from masthead to pulpit.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2009 : 17:23:37

Why bother, Randy is right. Anyway, if they get dirty, take 'em home and stuff 'em in a pillowcase, tie the top with a figure 8 knot so you can get it out and just wash the lines. Hang 'em outside to dry.

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C25Guy
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2009 : 12:05:42

Well that sounds pretty unanimous. I'll worry about something that actually matters instead! Thanks

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2009 : 17:57:09

"Cringle" - sorry Frank, I'll try to not be so careless again.

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pastmember
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Response Posted - 02/22/2009 : 20:21:44

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aeckhart
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1709 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2009 : 13:46:26

I used the cow hitch on my genoa for one season. I tied it a tad too short and, when attached to the "cringle", chafed the edge of the sail almost to the cringle. I changed to bowlins and have been using them for the last 17 years. They take longer to attach but my experience tells me the bowlin is better.

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skrenz
Captain

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351 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2009 : 17:20:07

Isn't there a right way and a wrong way to set up the bow lines for the clew of the headsail? One way has less chance of getting the tail of the bow line hooked on the shroud.
I can't see how a cow hitch, or any "hitch" for that matter is a good knot to use in this situation. Seems to me you run a good chance of the line slipping through the knot (try this at home tying a cow hitch in nylon line and see what happens).

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2009 : 21:27:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by skrenz
 ...Seems to me you run a good chance of the line slipping through the knot (try this at home tying a cow hitch in nylon line and see what happens).<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Absolutely no way. Many of us have used it for years. Yes, try it at home.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2009 : 21:37:06

I've used a cow hitch for a long, long time and I don't think I could get it to slip even if I tried.

Interestingly, I've had bowlines work themselves loose. If using a bowline, make the loop small and leave the tail long. Even better would be seizing the tail to the line which is quick, easy, and cheap insurance.

Edited by - dlucier on 02/28/2009 07:35:15

John Russell
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Response Posted - 02/28/2009 : 08:56:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by skrenz
 Isn't there a right way and a wrong way to set up the bow lines for the clew of the headsail? One way has less chance of getting the tail of the bow line hooked on the shroud.
I can't see how a cow hitch, or any "hitch" for that matter is a good knot to use in this situation. Seems to me you run a good chance of the line slipping through the knot (try this at home tying a cow hitch in nylon line and see what happens).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Except that the "tail" of the cow hitch in this application is roughly 30 feet long. That's a lot of slippage on a knot that has a fair amount of tension -- therefore friction.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2009 : 10:37:30

The real problem with the cow hitch is the opposite of slippage--it's breaking it loose. I've spent a long time with a marlin-spike removing my sheets at the end of a season. There's no way that knot was slipping anywhere. If you want to be able to remove the sheets on a regular basis, you'll probably be happier with two bowlines.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/28/2009 10:38:08

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