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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Wheel Steering Upgrade

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essen48183
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USA
143 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/24/2009 : 19:04:48

I have an Edson pedestal that came off a hurricane damaged boat to refurb and install. $500 on ebay.

I plan on using Arlyn's chain/wire method. I'd like to know the size and placement of the slot in the transom.

Also, can someone with a factory install please give me the measurements for pedestal placement and also measurements and placement of rudder bar that goes through the transom.

Thanks. I will try and take pictures and document well so that others can do a conversion.

Essen Davis
Trenton, MI

"Cornbread"
1995 Catalina 250, Water Ballast , Hull #161
http://gallery.me.com/essen#gallery

Edited by - on

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
855 Posts

Response Posted - 03/24/2009 : 22:32:26

Essen,
I have a 2005 C250WB with wheel steering.
Which rudder do you have and is it made for wheel steering or were you planning attaching you own bracket?
Russ

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2009 : 08:06:46

Here's a start...
http://www.edsonmarine.com/support/wheel_conversion/pdfs/c250.pdf

and...
http://www.edsonmarine.com/support/PDFs/planning/EB381SteeringGuide.pdf

Paul

Edited by - britinusa on 03/25/2009 08:09:05

essen48183
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143 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2009 : 10:43:27

Russ, I have a 2nd gen kick-up rudder. It should not matter... the measurement for the slot on the transom would be the same for any of the rudders... else they wouldn't be interchangeable. I will likely be making my own arm because edson will charge 10 times the price it is worth for a square bar with some holes drilled in it. And I don't think there's a big second hand market for those. I may end up buying the rubber boot though.

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Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
855 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2009 : 19:14:00

Essen,

1) I will take the measurements.

2) In the owner's manual you will notice the transom slot is off-center.
There is an owner's manual posted on this website and a diagram of the deck plan.
Home > Manuals & Brochures > Catalina C250 Owner's Manual (PDF Page-31)

3) Here's a link to an old posting with pictures from my boat --> [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=12522"]Edson System Adjustment[/url]
You can tell from my picture how the transom slot is offset from the gudgeon mounts.
Note: my boat has the second set of gudgeon mounts for the mast carrier.
They are not installed for the tiller steering models like yours.
In the pcture, the second set of gudgeon mounts are installed between the ladder and the rudder mounts.

Russ 2005 C250WB #793

Edited by - on

zebra50
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2009 : 11:03:19

Here are some pictures of my installation if they are of any help

this is the attachment to the rudder head. I also have the beaching or kick up rudder

Originally the dealer installed the rudder attachment through the rudder which did not allow for it to kick up. I took the head off the rudder and mounted the bolts flush on the inside of the rudder head.

Note the eye bolts that the cables are attached to. This is an accessory from Edson that allows cable adjustment without having to remove or loosen the saddles.

Hope this helps

Edited by - on

essen48183
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143 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2009 : 18:55:12

Thank you! Those pictures answered a whole lot. I still could use the dimensions of that cut out in the transom. (inside dimensions of that stainless steel trim piece in the top picture on the post above)

I disassembled the pedestal for cleaning and regreasing... I decided I oughta fill some pitting and sand/prime/paint it since I already had the hardware off. While the primer was drying I ordered Arlyn's kit and it arrived in about 8 hours!!! Wow! He's good.

Seriously, though, that is a testament to Arlyn's plans... A look at the plans, a trip to the metal shop, home depot, and the local H/W and I was ready to go. I only have to go back to the hardware store one time tomorrow because I grabbed two bolts that were in improper bins. There was nothing unclear on his website. I will say that for those that want to tackle it, I do have a bandsaw, but that is about it as far as metalworking tools. I put a 3/8" carbide router bit into a router table and with slowest speed and a jig to prevent unwanted movment in any direction... the slot was made about 1/16" deeper per pass until I was through. $75 in metal, $100 in pulleys and stainless H/W, bushings, pins, etc... $20 drill bit, $20 file, used up a belt sander refill and angle grinder wheel, So his price of $300 for a kit is very fair.

I have to work the rest of the weekend, so hopefully Monday I'll sand and get a coat of pain or two on the pedestal.

Edited by - on

essen48183
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143 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2009 : 13:11:32

O.K. try again... we've gotta get to where we can post pics ON the forum itself.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2009 : 08:53:10

Looking good! Happy that the plans were easy to follow.

A few tips. First, on the under surface of the rudder arm, measure 2 1/2 inches from the aft end of the slot and make a cross wise witness mark with a marks a lot pen. Then mount the rudder arm and secure the rudder centered. This then makes it very easy to position the first hole to mount the main frame with a pencil mark vertical between the witness marks).

One design goal I had was easy centering adjustment of the king spoke (spoke on the top of the wheel usually with a leather lace wrap so as to easily feel when the rudder is centered). The design had to compromise to making this adjustment during the installation. So, when fitting cables, lock the rudder centered and lock the wheel with the king spoke on top and install the chain on the pedestal sprocket with equal amounts on each side. Then when clamping the cables to the clevis at the rudder arm extension, use similar tension when pulling the two cable clamps snug and tightening.

Final cable tension of course will be done on the two half inch nuts on the tensioner assembly but they will not change the king spoke position.

Having the king spoke right on top is a big plus as it so easily makes feeling the rudder centered and you will thank yourself many times for the effort made in positioning it well or curse yourself for not doing so.

The slot in the rudder arm will need greased, I used white lithium grease. The cables will need oiled where they roll on the sheaves otherwise they may squeak a little.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 03/30/2009 08:58:29

essen48183
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143 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2009 : 17:35:11

I'd still like to know the following measurements if anyone gets a chance:

1) size and placement of the slot in the transom. (or the inside dimensions of the SS trim piece would be fine)

2) a measurement that shows factory placement of the wheel. I suppose a measurement from the aft of pedestal on cockpit sole to the front of fuel locker.

3) and also measurements (length/width/thickness) of the rudder arm that goes through the transom. I am also curious to know whether it is aluminum or SS.

Thank you in advance for your time.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
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Response Posted - 04/05/2009 : 20:38:22

If you don't get them sooner, I'll try to post them tomorrow evening.

Edited by - on

essen48183
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143 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2009 : 09:33:30

Thanks,

I was planning on placing the wheel today... irregardless of factory specs... just figured I'd put it where it was comfortable... but IT STARTED SNOWING! Arghhh. I can't believe it. It was ~55 and sunny yesterday.

I was able to rebuild the wheel (that wouldn't turn) without anything from Edson. I also re-painted the pedestal which was in poor shape. I'm ready to install. I also noticed that I am in for a quick single backstay mod.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2009 : 18:47:00

[url="http://pages.suddenlink.net/arlyn/sailing/dimensions.jpg"]Dimensions[/url]

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essen48183
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143 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2009 : 23:04:52

Who do I see to become a member of the Arlyn Fan Club! Thanks, buddy. Did you happen to notice if that arm is aluminum or stainless? I would think it is aluminum.

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Arlyn Stewart
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Response Posted - 04/07/2009 : 09:45:30

It is made of aluminum and is anodized black.

And... it just occurred to me that I'd referenced all dimensions from the lower gudgeon. It might be wise to confirm that gudgeons are the same for our installations. My lower gudgeon is 7 3/8" from the bottom of the hull to the top of the gudgeon.

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essen48183
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143 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2009 : 23:00:45

O.K. Big day today. Using Arlyns measurements, I drilled the holes and dry fitted the rebuilt wheel and also put the transom hole/boot/trim ring (which I ordered from edson). Also built the mounting plate for the rudder and the anodized arm today because edson wanted to much $.

I did change the wheel placement from standard... moving it forward 5". In the factory position It seemed I'd not quite have enough room aft of the wheel to have a solid footing in heavy seas, Also it was important for me to have a comfy seat on either side and work the wheel and see the GPS without the wheel being behind me.

I'm working tomorrow. So Friday I should get it all buttoned up and caulked in... then on to remote throttle, cupholders, gps, compass, and wiring for instruments.

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essen48183
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143 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2009 : 23:10:12

Here are the holes... the final mount was done in the dark so there are no pics yet. Next post will have it. The wheel and transom were dry fitted... The core of all holes will, of course be routed out and filled with epoxy/404 filler and redrilled to seal the core, then chamfered to allow a good placement of the sealant. I found a leak in the fuel locker that will get some attention as well (poor glasswork from the factory)

Edited by - essen48183 on 04/15/2009 23:17:07

essen48183
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Response Posted - 04/20/2009 : 21:37:55

O.K. System is in. Arlyn's measurements are useable... I did move the wheel 5" forward. Also, the height of the transom cutout... I think could be cheated 1/2" down to make sure there is good clearance all around. I am guessing from the picture above that the factory places it 1/2" lower and ya'll are shimming the arm up... There wasn't room for washers on the top three bolts of the trim ring as the holes were right below the bottom of the fuel locker( but the arm did line up requiring no shims to hook to the cable system). The picture above from jay shows the cutout a bit lower both compared to the bottom of the fuel locker and compared to the gudeouns... I wonder if there is different placement of the transom gudgeouns or the cutout on different years?

Regardless... with Arlyns website (and the measurements he posted above which he should add to his website) .... I basically have nothing to add... other than seal your core if you are cutting into it. I would not be afraid to do this with minimal tools. The only specialty tool I used was a bandsaw.... without it, I'd have ordered Arlyn's kit and bought a few parts from edson instead of fabricating them..

I ordered the arm (black anodized aluminum from McMaster-Carr and cut it to length. It was 1" x 3/4".... The 3/4" dimension still fit through the edson boot just fine. It was also only $30 for enough to make 2 arms. I ordered a little extra stock for making the slotted arm extension, I ordered it thinking I would make a mistake... I didn't, so it was used to make the rudder mount... The thing I would change is I should've combined a hard link system to the outboard in that part..., now it will be a separate bolt on part.

Total cost came in at $900 for the wheel, including the rebuild coast, bolts, materials, paint, and edson boot/trim ring, wire, everything.... still have to install remote throtttle kit (included in the $900) I have a recent model Nissan 9.8. The kit doensn't come with directions and there is nothing in the Nissan shop manual... should be fun.

There were no surprises, so far... aside from my 8 year old who spun the wheel one full turn

while I measured the wires costing me $35 and a day of time. My helper!

Edited by - essen48183 on 04/20/2009 21:49:45

essen48183
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143 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2009 : 15:10:17

Success! Now If I can just figure out the remote throttle connections on the motor....

Wheel: (picked up a new compass marked down from $360 to $50 at WM!!!! It said west when you pointed it north.... I figured it was just a matter of turning a screw to fix it.... it was... weird.)

Transom: (Those extra holes on the rudder were placed there by a prior owner)

Edited by - essen48183 on 04/21/2009 15:18:35

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2009 : 17:31:45

Very nice work! This is one of the more extensive projects I have seen. You obviously have a talent for fabrication. Congratulations. I'll be interested in your placement of the pedestal and steering while sitting in the cockpit. Nice that you could custom fit to your needs.

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