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Maybe new battery time questions

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/26/2009 : 10:40:49

Last time we were down at the boat, there wasn't enough charge on the battery to start the engine. Admittedly we'd left a breaker on the whole time, but nothing running. My new cigarette lighter battery level gizmo said I had about 12.1 volts in the battery which is around 40-50% discharged. I pull started the engine & left it running for about half an hour to get a bit of a charge on the battery. I also cleaned the contacts and cells on the solar panel & checked to make sure it was making a circuit to it's regulator right at the battery. It had been fairly overcast & cold for several weeks prior to that, so it's possible that it was just a perfect storm of conditions causing the discharge. I plan to go down again this weekend to check on it and other things.

Presuming that it's time for a new battery, what are your recommendations? I eventually want to move my battery(s) up front to replace some of my lead weights, but that's a project for next winter, not right before the season starts.

I'm thinking an Optima Blue top deep cycle AGM battery, are their others I should consider?

David
C-250 Mainsheet Editor

Sirius Lepak
1997 C-250 WK TR #271 --Seattle area Port Captain --

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2009 : 11:07:24

There was a pretty good thread on batteries a while back if you want to do a search.

I toasted 2 deep cycles in 2 years until I got myself a decent solar panel. Even with nothing on the presets on the stereo were enough to drain it over a few weeks and an insufficient panel couldn't keep up. What a pain!!! Glad I took OLarryR's suggestion and went to

and bought a 45 watt panel and good controller. Problem solved!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2009 : 12:49:31

My new boat was delivered with two blue Optimas--I was never sure whether they were really AGM's as I had ordered--the labels didn't say. They were both dead when the boat was delivered, and shortly afterward the engine cooked them both--sulfurous gas was boiling out. I needed a quick replacement and wanted to study the AGM thing further, so picked up two wet-cells from Defender. They have been perfect for two years. I may never know what really happened with the Optimas (they went back to the boat builder), but I probably won't be buying more of them. YMMV.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/26/2009 12:53:24

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2009 : 12:58:11

As I've mentioned on other threads, I've gotten great service out of Walmart,s deep cycles.

Edited by - on

glen
Captain

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359 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2009 : 14:00:39

Costco batteries have worked well for me

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2009 : 14:31:15

I've had a Walmart marine battery for four years now with no problems.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2009 : 15:11:13

We use 2 Group 24 AGMs from West Marine coupled with a Charles 10W smart charger. Nice and easy with zero maintenance. Works like a charm.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2009 : 16:49:00

I too replaced my batteries(2) after after motor would not start -after 6yrs of use. I had group 24 marine deep cycle. I replaced them with the same type but instead of buying from WM and paying twice as much, I got them from an auto parts store(Kragan). I just could not see paying an arm and a leg for those fancy AGM(And there Goes my Money) ones.
Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 03/26/2009 16:51:56

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5397 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2009 : 21:01:55

Ditto on the Wally-World group 24 battery, but I don't know whether it is truely an 80 AH battery, or little shy of that number. Works fine though.

Funny thing about our boats, even if everything is turned off, if your battery isn't physically disconnected from the house circuit over the winter, the battery will discharge.

This comes from at least two possible sources:
(1) self discharge - this is a standard part of lead-acid battery physics. Batteries will lose 5-10% of their charge each month, and cold weather can accelerate it, and
(2) any "keep alive" circuit in your electronics like radios, VHF, GPS or DC-to-AC inverters (even if they're turned off).

Doing the numbers: if a GPS takes a paltry 50 mA continously for 4 months (2900 hours) this adds up to 145 AH! and certainly a dead battery. If a battery remains discharged for any length of time, it will become sulfated. This is more or less an irreversible failure mode for a lead-acid battery.

In recognition of this, I kept my battery in Passage over the winter while being up on the hard, and I left my 15W solar panel connected, using the solar regulator. I've been working on the electrical panel through the winter, and use an inverter to drive a 13W CFL more or less each weekend.

Each weekend, I might use 10-12 AH and by the time I get back the following week, the battery is topped up. This approach seems to work out well. However, if I just left it there without the solar panel, it would be DEAD now.

Edited by - on

glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2009 : 08:11:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> self discharge - this is a standard part of lead-acid battery physics. Batteries will lose 5-10% of their charge each month, and cold weather can accelerate it <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Bruce...Actually cold weather greatly slows self discharge. I store my battery (1-Group 27; Costco) in our detached garage over the winter which stays between 28-32ºF throughout the winter. Out of curiosity I monitored its discharge this winter. Initial voltage (Dec) was 12.84V. After the first month it had dropped to 12.81V and to 12.74 after the second. At that point I charged the battery and attached a solar 5W panel.

Edited by - on

John P
Captain

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USA
324 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2009 : 08:22:43

I am going to put a new battery in my boat, originally had 2.

One is a Diehard starting battery that is toast and the 2nd is a 2001 Everstart Deep Cell Marine group 24 from Walmart that still has a bit of spark, but is certainly time for a replacement.

Have to admit that I am leaning towards a sealed battery though....Still looking....

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2009 : 08:45:20

The main danger of cold weather is that if the battery does discharge far enough, it can freeze. (Big problem.) AGMs (lead-acid) supposedly self-discharge less than a percent a month--a friend leaves his on the boat all winter with no fear of freezing or need to trickle-charge.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/27/2009 08:46:11

John P
Captain

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USA
324 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2009 : 08:59:04

My problem last year was that I left them in the garage, then they got hidden by junk, now spring, etc...

Anyway a long long many repeated story.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2009 : 23:29:54

This could help a bit: http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19293

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2009 : 23:52:18

I use the Costco group 27 in a battery box with the cover. Want to use a solar charging system this year.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5397 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2009 : 17:02:37

try Amazon or Target for the solar panel

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2009 : 18:37:28

We already have a solar panel with a controller, so that's not the problem. I took my regular battery charger down to the boat today & put a float on it. After about 90 minutes of charging, I had almost exactly 13 volts on the battery. We had to get back home, so I left the charger on the boat (unplugged) for next time we get down there. I think we might be able to put off a new battery for a while, but the next trip down there should tell.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2009 : 20:42:22

Well, the next trip down there turned out to be sooner than I thought. About 11pm last night I realized we'd left the cabin breaker on, with the volt meter running. Not exactly what I wanted to do. Fortunately after a night of snow, it turned out to be a beautiful warm-ish day, with actual sunlight. By the time I got to the boat this afternoon, it was shirtsleeves weather, and the solar panel was cooking away. The volt meter was indicating a bit over 13VDC, and a bit more after I oriented the panel directly at the sun. I think the battery's OK for the time being, but I'll keep an eye on it.

Edited by - on

David Scott
1st Mate

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USA
74 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2009 : 23:02:57

Try www.batterystuff.com...It has a great tutorial and all kinds of info...and of course they are trying to sell you there products.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2009 : 08:54:14

This weekend I swallowed a pill and decided that instead of farting around, I'd just replace stuff and be done with it.

Iris now has a 115 AH Deep Cycle and an 85 AH starter/deep cycle. total bill came in just around $250. Took the old Batteries in with me, one was dead. I figure the good one must have been discharging across to the dead one. When I put th enew batts in, they read 12.8 V. So now they are sitting in the boat with the trickle charger on them.

What is interesting is that I had another DC that I thought was dead and I left sitting outside all winter next to the garage. When I had the other 2 batts in for testing I had them throw that one on the machine as well, and it tested OK. It is now in the Garage as a backup.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2009 : 16:05:15

I'm wondering if I have a problem with my set up as well. I have a solar panel mounted on the aft stay and a single battery. I've had no problem with power, all I run is cabin lights and the auto bilge pump but last Sunday the cabin lights were real dim...I'm hoping the next time I go out there they will have recharged.

Edited by - on

John P
Captain

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USA
324 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2009 : 07:38:13

I have an old walmart deep cell marine battery (Everstart) that is 8 years old and I thought it was toast, but have had the trickle charger on it for the last week and it appears to be holding a charge. I need a new voltmeter, but when a test light is put on it, it is very bright and does not diminsh over 5 minutes....Still, I am opting for a new battery and may just replace with the same. Heck 8 years old!

I left the battery off the charger last night, so it will be interesting to see after 24 hrs how it is doing! Then again, my goal from now on will be to have a solar charger in use.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5397 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2009 : 21:26:53

You can "test" your Group 24 battery's reserve Amp Hours using a simple test.

Charge your battery to full, which is about 12.6 volts once it settles down.

Run two 1.5A (18W) incandescent cabin lights for 10 hours, which would be about 30 AH.

Let the battery sit for a half hour, then measure the battery voltage.

If it's above or around 12.2 volts, the battery's Amp Hour capacity is fine, but if it measures below 12.0 volts, then Houston, we have a problem.

It means that that the AH rating for your battery is below 80 AH, which could be due to age, sulfation or low electrolyte. To remedy, you can use a special charging procedure to try and de-sulfate the battery or you can check your electrolyte level.

One of the Forum members offered a link to the special battery charging procedure to rid your battery of sulfate build up, you might try a search for that entry.

Edited by - Voyager on 04/01/2009 21:28:18

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2009 : 15:13:15

Oye, oye, WM now has group 24 batteries on sale. $40 off. Time to stock up!

Steve A
PS too bad they are not on sale couple months ago when I needed them and bought elsewhere.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2009 : 15:48:26

Carp! I just bought one At Canadian Tire last week. I'll have to check if they have them on sale up here too.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2009 : 21:28:41

Chris, sorry but what does fish have to do with it?

Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 04/03/2009 21:29:58

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