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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Anchor recommendation

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Bruce Baker
Captain

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USA
402 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/30/2009 : 09:19:53

What kind of anchor is best for a C-25/250? I presume you want something that's relatively light weight but has good holding power.

I was over at Boater's World looking for a bargain, and they have a model 8 that's good for 24 feet and a model 13 that's good to 30 feet. I wonder if there is a model 10?

Cheers,
Bruce

Bruce Baker
Falls Church, VA
"Yee Ha" 3573
'83SR/SK

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2009 : 09:56:59

Use the Search function--there have been many discussions, but there is no "right" answer. Variables include bottom types, expected wind and sea conditions, etc. Chain is an important component, as is a sufficiently long rode overall.

You can also Google "anchor tests" to see how some of the newer designs like Delta and $Rockna$ compare to the old standards like Bruce, CQR and Danforth. I had a 14# Delta as the primary anchor for Passage (for overnight), and a small Danforth in the bow locker as a "lunch hook". On Sarge, I have a 22# Delta on the roller and a 7# Fortress for a secondary--all with 20-25' of chain and 200' overall. For light weight and good holding, Fortress is hard to beat, but not the cheapest thing out there.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/30/2009 10:27:49

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2009 : 11:28:51

Bruce,

Do you sail on the Potomac or the Chesapeake Bay?

For the Bay, a 13 lb Danforth traditional anchor with 6' of chain and 75' of 3-strand rode is plenty. All the anchorages in the Bay are mud and 10' deep or so.

If you don't sail on the Chesapeake Bay, all bets are off with such light ground tackle. And thunderstorm-anchoring is also another thing all together.

I checked previous threads, and you seem to have posted a similar question last summer which was answered by Brooke Willson. I guess you still haven't decided:

Bruce, my 13 lb. Danforth with 6 feet of chain has not only held my boat just fine in the Chesapeake, but last summer we had a five boat raft-up in the Rappahannock, including a 32' deadrise, all on my anchor.

That being said, there are plenty of places, and the Potomac is probably one, where the bottom conditions are such that a 13 lb. anchor might not hold. I suspect the bottom of the Potomac is pretty awful (considering what washes downstream from Capitol Hill).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brooke Willson
Urbanna, Virginia
Catalina 25 SKTR # 5050

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - Even Chance on 07/14/2008 21:41:58

Edited by - JohnP on 03/30/2009 11:51:49

Bruce Baker
Captain

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USA
402 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2009 : 13:51:14

John,

I had forgotten about last summer's post. That was motivated by a poor anchoring job by yours truly in the midst of a crowd of boats watching fireworks. I put out line at 3X depth, whereas 5X would have been better.

The new post is motivated by buying a new boat (S2 7.9) that doesn't have an anchor at all. What I'm hearing from various sources is "you might need two anchors, depending upon use. One for racing, one for cruising, maybe use both for cruising." I'm also hearing an endorsement for a Fortress anchor. My old anchor was a Danforth, possibly too small for the job.

Thanks,
Bruce

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2009 : 21:26:59

Bruce: 5:1 scope is OK for when you're keeping an eye on things, or have very mild conditions (current and/or wind)... 7:1 scope is recommended for sleeping. That and the chain keep the anchor from pulling upward. Scope is based on depth plus the height of your bow, so with that S2 in 10' of water, 5:1 scope takes about 70' of rode, and 7:1 takes 100'.

You can minimize weight within the rules for racing, but for cruising in a 27-footer, you should generally have a 200' rode including around 25' of chain (at about a pound a foot)--that'll keep you safe in 20' of water, which I realize is rare in Chesapeake anchorages... but if you're in trouble out on the bay, you want a "last resort" that can hold you in place.

The 7 lb. (I think) Fortress FX-11 should take pretty good care of you. A second anchor is a very good idea for cruising. Stuff happens, and also you might need to use a stern anchor to keep from swinging in a crowd (if boats around you are using them).

All the best with your new S2!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/30/2009 21:37:26

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2009 : 21:54:08

I agree also with going with a Fortress anchor. I sail in the Potomac River which basically has a mud bottom. The Fortress is an upscale Danforth style anchor snd the sizing chart indicates you can go with a smaller/lighter Fortress when compared to the Danforth. Thge Fortress anchor is made of a lightweight aluminum alloy. They are expensive compared to other Danforth style anchors. Be aware that Fortress also sells another Danforth style anchor called "Guardian by Fortress". The Guardian anchor is less expensive compared to the Fortress anchor and that's because it's design is slightly different. Rcmd go to the Forress website and comapre the attributes of weach.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2009 : 17:26:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bruce Baker
 I was over at Boater's World looking for a bargain, and they have a model 8 that's good for 24 feet and a model 13 that's good to 30 feet. I wonder if there is a model 10?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Bruce, I'm surprised no one else has questioned this. What do you mean by this? Anchors arent' different for different depths. Anchoring SYSTEMS are sized for the size, type and weight of the boat and the anticipated maximum wind speed required. That means that the holding power of each and every one of the components MUST be sized and selected for the anticipated need. This includes the anchor , the chain, the rode and each of the connectors, usually shackles or chain to rode connectors or anchor to chain swivels or connectors.

Calder's Cruising Handbook has a good selection table and discussion. The folks here are very informative. Follow their guidance. Another good anchoring discussion is by West Marine in their catalog and on line Advisors.

We never installed a bow roller on our boat, using the hanger for a Danforth on the bow pulpit. I have serious reservations about Danforth anchors if you are anchoring in areas with changing currents. The new generation of anchors, including the Rocna and Manson Supreme anchors, are far superior in holding and resetting. There have been many recent discussions of anchoring over on co.com, like this one: http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=601323

Size your system and choose a new anchor wisely.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2009 : 18:04:51

Practical Sailor says to read all the tests and take the results with a big grain of salt because there are just to many variables. I have never had a problem with my Danforth (real Danforth), but it certainly won't reset as quickly as a claw or plow after a veer. It is no good in rock and won't penetrate moderatly dense growth. Your second anchor should be a different type; for my purposes, a claw design fits best. Your situation is different. Buy the Practical Sailor Gear Guide if you don't subscribe and use all the other resources mentioned, especially those with local knowledge.

I think he is referring to boat length recommendations, and go for the 30 ft recommendation.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 03/31/2009 18:09:31

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2009 : 22:25:48

Yup... most manufacturers list a range of boat lengths for each anchor size. But the intensity of your expected conditions might suggest that you size up one range. My two anchors are for ranges just above the size of my boat, and they're different types--the Delta is a plow, and the Fortress is like a Danforth. Each has 20' of chain on a 200' rode.

Manson and Rocna are apparently very good for various bottoms and for re-setting in a shift, and are probably the standards now. Delta has been good for me, too, and is similar but less expensive. Tests showed it to be the new standard back when I got into the market, eclipsing the CQR. (Traditionalists disbelieve.) The Fortress, like other Danforth types, has excellent holding power, except not in all bottom conditions.

Proper scope, adequate chain, and setting technique is at least as important as the choice of anchor. If you know what you're doing, you'll be safer with a cinder-block than the guy with a Manson Supreme with 5' of chain and 3:1 scope who didn't try to back down to set the hook. (Right Sten??)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/31/2009 22:40:28

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2009 : 00:37:00

We have also discussed anchoring in great detail, as have many 'boards. Try this, see reply #33 on page 3 specifically: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2705.0.html

Your boat, your choice, but anchors are less expensive than boats.

Edited by - Stu Jackson C34 on 04/01/2009 00:37:50

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2009 : 08:03:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 If you know what you're doing, you'll be safer with a cinder-block than the guy with a Manson Supreme with 5' of chain and 3:1 scope who didn't try to back down to set the hook. (Right Sten??)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There is one cruiser out there who has nicknamed me "AnchorSten" after the beer and after my passion for proper anchoring techniques. Chain rules the planet. (I'm on the hook now in Fernandina Beach FL after a 20 hour run from Savannah GA. Whew! Broke free!)

Anyway, yes Dave, it's not really the hook, but the catenary of the CHAIN or Kellet that makes for safe anchoring. Just as a refresher - on my C25 we had a 22 lb. Danforth on 15 feet of chain - for a lunch hook! I carried three 20 foot sections of chain with shackles and I would shackle on additional sections depending on conditions, etc. That was my primary, and then I carried a secondary 13 lb. Danforth, and a 22 lb. Bruce with separate rode and chain.

My wife is reading the master Moitessier's A Sea Vagabond's World and noted his array of equipment and his techniques. He recommends two hooks on one rode for storm conditions instead of the v shaped configuration commonly used by those anchoring with two rodes. He suggests techniques for hauling the weight without a windlass that seem applicable here - although my retirement C25 will have a windlass!

sten
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - Fernandina Beach FL
DPO Zephyr - C25 #3220 - FK, SR

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2009 : 16:51:19

Stu, I am sure Bruce was talking about size of boat, not depth in regards to the anchor models.
Bruce, I just was wondering as Boaters World is filing Chapter Whatever, do they have special pricing?
Due to Jim B's recommendation I got some extra chain and found a great deal on Ebay with free shipping. Point is, shop around once you know what you want. There are great deals out there.
Steve A

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2009 : 07:38:15

Bruce,
If you don't mind driving over to Annapolis from where you are in northern VA, you can get a bargain on any of several dozen used anchors at [url="http://www.baconsails.com/"]Bacon & Associates[/url]. They also have new chain and new and used rode at good prices.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2009 : 15:55:00

I started a thread on this recently, but for Georgian bay. From the responses and local discussion, it sounds like there are a load of opinions and a few facts in this departments. The "independant tess" all appear to favour the anchors that pay for the advertising on the opposite page.

I have decided that no one will sell a crap product and risk being sued. Therefore, I am buying whatever comes up at the best price the next time SWMBO is out of town.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2009 : 16:22:01

Prospector,
No advertisers is why I like Practical Sailor. They also explain their test conditions and techniques in extreme detail, and that is helpful in decision making. One test does not make an anchor superior. In one of their tests, a Fortress in normal fluke position out performed itself in the mud position in a mud bottom. As they say, take all results with a large grain of salt. They also quote an anchor guru who says the length of proper sized chain in a chain/line rode should equal the weight of the anchor, not be "x" feet long

edit: they have also tested chain for moorings, and the strongly advise against buying cheap Chinese chain because it doesn't hold up and often doesn't achieve its rated strength.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 04/03/2009 16:26:43

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