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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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My third sail should be...

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windsong
Captain

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USA
318 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/08/2009 : 18:23:36

Hi,
I'm a new 250 owner. My first post. Hello everyone. GREAT forum.

My 2009 Catalina came with a 110% genoa. I only have money for one new sail this year. What should it be? A bigger headsail or an asymmetrical spinnaker? I'm doing mostly daysailing this year with a few short coastal overnighters on the planning table. I'm also doing some racing in the weekend club races, but winning races is not an issue with me, just a fun excuse to get out on the boat.

Thanks in advance for your opinions. I'm in analysis-paralysis on this question.

Michael Hetzer
"Windsong"
2009 Catalina 250 WK HN984
Myrtle Beach, SC

Edited by - windsong on 04/09/2009 07:46:01

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2009 : 18:34:43

I guess a lot of that would depend on what your style is. Is this your first sailboat? If you are learning (like me) then you might not want to get overcanvassed too early. Does th emoney have to be put into sails? Would be better put into safety gear?

Assuming tha tyour boat is fully geared for safety, an dthat you know what you are doing, it becomes a question of your intended use. If you are cruising, then I would suggest a 135%, if racing with a furler, maybe a 155%, but be sure that you have your furling set up right. If this is your nth boat, and you are comfortable with how it handles, then get a chute.

The advice I got when I first bought our boat was not to buy anything over $100 in the first season (unless something broke) but that by the second season I would know exactly what to replace first. It was good advice. I should have followed it.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2009 : 18:54:09

I agree with Chris, I spent a ton of money on our 250 in the first year, and some of it would have been better spent in other places. I also agree with the safety issue. Do you have good, comfortable PFDs for you and anyone else who sails with you on a regular basis? Do they have strobes, good aftermarket whistles and lanyards attached? Do you have a LifeSling, VHF radio, throw cushions, etc.? If you sail on a lake, some of these may be less important, but if you're sailing on larger waters, you'd be well advised to acquire them before a new sail.

Hopefully that didn't sound too much like a lecture.

For us, the 110 has been more than adequate, in fact we bought a 70 storm jib. However, take that with a grain of salt as we have a tall rig, so it's not difficult for use to get overcanvassed quickly. Lots of the guys here speak highly of their 135's.

Welcome to the forum, where do you sail out of, what's your hull number?

Edited by - on

windsong
Captain

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USA
318 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2009 : 19:08:42

I'm in pretty good shape on safety gear. Good PFDs, safety harness, jack line, flares, foulies, etc, but I appreciate the sentiment. I sail out of Little River, SC. I was a Hobie 16 sailor till this fall, when I bought the Catalina. Winds can get pretty light in the summer here, which is why I was thinking I could use a bigger headsail, but I've also been told that the 110% is just fine, and that what I really need next is the asymmetrical chute for downwind sailing. I've had a little experience with asymmetrical on a J/80, so I'm confident I can handle the sail. But the quote from my dealer is $2,100 for the spinnaker package, not counting the sock and tacker. I'm sure blowing the $100-rule right out of the water! LOL. I won't be telling my wife about the $100 rule, you can bet on that.
Thanks for your thoughts. Much appreciated.

Edited by - windsong on 04/08/2009 19:16:09

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2009 : 20:12:57

Hi Windsong and welcome to the forum! I own a C250 Water Ballast, race and cruise it. My experience is that a C250 will sail much faster when flat. After much Analysis-Paralysis myself (for 1 year) and discussing the matter in depth with my forum buddies I finaly decided to go with a 135% this year. The reason is that a 150% will not give much useful drive since the power will be lost in the extra heeling rendering a slower speed. I own a 110% and can use it if the wind really picks up but a 135% is probably useful 95% of the time and balanced for our sail plan. For racing it`s hard to beat a symetrical spin, but I have decide to go with an easy to handle symetrical next year.

I believe this to be the best combo for a racer/cruiser. Note that this can change if you have a WK, but not much.
- 110%
- 135%
- Asymetrical spin.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2009 : 07:51:30

Go to National Sail and get an asym for a lot les than your dealer. But, I'd wait until next year. Find out what you need first.

Edited by - on

windsong
Captain

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USA
318 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2009 : 07:54:38

That's real helpful. Thanks. What's it like to switch out headsails? I love my new boat, but I'm not real impressed with the way the halyard on the headsail is rigged down the forestay. I have a roller furler. It looks like a tricky business to switch out sails using the messenger with very little leverage. Is it as bad as it looks?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2009 : 08:54:49

Welcome, Cap! If you're into switching headsails, you don't want a CDI roller furler. The idea of the furler is to (1) make it easy to deploy and furl the sail, and (2) allow you to carry let's say a 135 genny and reef it down (partially roll it up) as needed for conditions. That plus an asymmetric might be what you're after, unless you're a serious racer who wants quick headsail changes and optimal shape (which the furler won't give you when reefed).

Is your 250 a water-ballast or a wing keel? (It would be useful to put WB or WK in your signature for future discussions.) The WB is more tender, and the WK has inboard shrouds specifically for sheeting a bigger headsail. So most seem to feel a 110 is best on the WB, and a 135 is good on a WK except maybe in Kansas or on Buzzard's Bay or SF Bay. The C-250 is fastest when she's on her feet.

Also, it sounds like you have some sailing experience... Tell us a little about that. It'll help us in this guessing-game of what might be best for you.

One more vote... You sound like you're anxious for a spin, and that's fine... but regarding jib/gennnies, sail her in some varied conditions and get a feel for the boat and your taste for her performance before you start buying stuff that could be all wrong for you.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/09/2009 09:03:33

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2009 : 09:13:18

There we go--a wing! One more tip: The C-250 and C-25 are quite different. The 250 is somewhat more of a mainsail-driven rig than the 25, and there are many other differences in performance, rigging, etc. If you post questions like this on the C-250 Forum, you won't get as many C-25 guys (or ex-C-25 guys like me) chiming in.

Have a great time with Windsong, and join the association--it's one of her best features!

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2009 : 12:08:51

It sounds like you have the same CDI furler that I have. With that furler, Dave's right (again!) you won't need to be switching headsails frequently. The furler will allow you to bend on a 135% (should you go that route) for example and furl it down to something smaller if you find the wind is too much.

I would again advise against buying anything yet. Try out your 110%. You'll find that eventually you'll be need to replace it as it ages. It's unlikely that you will carry both a 110% and something larger with a furler. Unless, of course, you're a serious racer. I expect that you're not though since the C250 isn't exactly a Greyhound.

I also have the CDI furler you're describing. You're right about the internal halyard being a bit of a pain but, the good news is, once the sail is on for the season, it's unlikely that you'll be taking it off a lot. I'm assuming here that the boat will be slipped somewhere and not need to be rigged with every outing.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2009 : 12:21:57

Welcome to the Forum.

I checked out the area out of the Little River on the NC/SC line, and the chart shows lots of shallow water in Long Bay and up and down the coast. Here's the online chart [url="http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/11520.shtml"]11520 [/url]from Hatteras to Charleston with you in the middle.

Looks like a fun area. Where have you sailed?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2009 : 12:30:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 I also have the CDI furler you're describing. You're right about the internal halyard being a bit of a pain but, the good news is, once the sail is on for the season, it's unlikely that you'll be taking it off a lot...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...and it leaves you a halyard for your spin!

Also, for leisurely sails with uneasy guests or on a blustery day by yourself, welcome to the world of pulling out the genny, sailing along nicely (and straight up) on it alone, and then pulling the string to roll it back up and go home. I loved it!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/09/2009 12:36:34

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2009 : 16:34:04

We do not have furling, sometimes I think it would be a blessing, sometimes I am happy that I don't have it. If possible, you may want to see if there is another owner near you who has a 135% or 155% and go for a spin with them. It may give you an indication of whether you want ot go that route.

Another alternative is to invite the other owner to bring their sail to your boat. Just ideas.

Edited by - on

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Michael Hetzer"Windsong"2009 Catalina 250 WK HN984Myrtle Beach, SC

Michael Hetzer
"Windsong"
2009 Catalina 250 WK HN984
Myrtle Beach, SC