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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Old Chysler Outboard Best Place for Parts -- help

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Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/09/2009 : 07:35:12

Hello Folks,

I learned this morning that the reason why I am experiencing trouble with my outboard (does run well; stall constantly) is because the ignition coils are "useless."

I have a 1977 Chrysler 10hp 100 HA (2 stroke) motor. The coils were tested; the results indicate that they are "useless" -- in the OHM rating.

After searching the web, I have come to the conclusion that finding replacement part ignition coil is difficult, and that I may not find them part.

Please direct me to the resources you deem would be helpful. I would prefer to replace the parts and be sailing rather than searching for a new motor, and spending much more than I can at this time.

Best,
Deric

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2009 : 07:51:19

IF you can determine the part number, you should be able to get it from [url="http://stores.shop.ebay.com/MarinePartsToGo_Chrysler-Outboard-Parts?_fsub=17086844&_sid=660453571&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14&_pgn=1"]this eBay store[/url]. There are three pages of Chrysler/Force parts there, including at least three coils.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/09/2009 07:58:04

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2009 : 09:43:44

Deric,
Who tested the coils? Do they have replacements?
I would think just about any 2 stroke coil would work. You may have to make brackets to mount them, but they're just 12V coils. Don't let your motor mechanic make it harder than it needs to be.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1803 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2009 : 14:58:04

Check out small outboards.com as they focus on rebuilding and selling older low HP outboards. If they do not have it then call them and chat a bit. Equally, per above, check out Ebay as it is amazing who is out their -- especially the Ebay stores area.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2009 : 15:58:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Happy D
 Deric,
Who tested the coils? Do they have replacements?
I would think just about any 2 stroke coil would work. You may have to make brackets to mount them, but they're just 12V coils. Don't let your motor mechanic make it harder than it needs to be.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
+1

My dad has a 75 Chrysler 5hp. Searched everywhere for parts (carb) and eventually just got stuff from ebay. Let me know the response from the ebay seller and his availabilty of old Chrysler parts though.

Edited by - on

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2009 : 18:55:50

Hi Folks,
I appreciate the help from you. I thought that you may be interested in hearing an update as my effort to get my motor running well is revealing interesting aspects. By no means is this thread intended to be a blog, but you may find this story interesting as well.

The good:

1) After searching all over the world for an ignition coil -- my motor has 2 -- I found a local marina that had them in stock... 2 new coils! Hard to believe.

2) The tech at the local Marina tested my coil against the 2 new coils he had in stock, and said the readings are identical. I watched him perform the test, and noticed that the meter he used displayed several numerical scales. One of the scales read 250.

I asked him, "Isn't the 250 reading bad? A tech at another marina indicated that the coil had a reading of 250, and the coil is supposed to be 7000."

His reply, "Well, the 250 is times 10, and I don't know if the coil is supposed to read 7000, but the coil is reading continuity: same readings as the other new coils."

Now I am thinking the first tech didn't know how to read the meter? Maybe he should have read the zero on the ohm test to see that the coil is ok, and not look at the 250 number under the zero and in another scale.

The bad:

1) Something else is making the motor run like a battered dog.

2) Such an old motor may not be worth repair, yet, a new motor is $$$$

The ugly:

1) To trust the tech who told me the coil was not good because it read 250 ????

2) Do the best I can with the ol' motor, while looking for a good used motor during this season.

Update:
I'll take the second coil off and have the coil tested as I did with the first coil.
Replace plugs again
Look for breaks in wires
Remix fuel
Cross fingers
Pray to the outboard motor gods
Buy two long paddles

Let's see what happens.

Deric

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2009 : 20:30:38

If the other coil reads 250 (whatever that means), clearly they're both good. Have you cleaned the carb? New spark wires are another possibility... How's the compression--equal between cylinders? There aren't too many other things that can be wrong, but let's face it--32 years is more than it owed you.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/11/2009 20:31:53

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2009 : 03:47:35

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your response.

A few notes:

1) I ordered a carb cleaner kit from a company online -- sent wrong kit.
2) I shall be testing second coil this week.
3) Can't change the spark plug wires because they are part of the ignition coil -- my first idea was to only change the plug wires, but that is how I got into the coil issues Heh.
4) Good idea, check the compression, I haven't done that task. I shall research to learn how to perform the test.
5) I only got 2 years out of the 32 years, -- the motor owes me at least 7 years. heh. Previous owner may have gotten the best years.

Note: the number 250 was an indicator on the meter tool toward the far right. I suspect that the number represents a measured variable of some sort. I found a picture of the multitester see below. Take note of the number 250 on the scale toward the right, below the scale that reads zero. Looks like it's a DC measurement.

Edited by - on

Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2009 : 05:11:42

Hi Deric, Just a suggestion...make sure the fuel mixture is new/clean and (the problem with my old 2 cycle)ensure you have a properly operating fuel line. I had purchased a new fuel line and was still having problems with my engine running. Seems when I squeezed the bulb, it would push fuel into the carb and the engine would run for a bit, sputter, then die. I found that the valve within the bulb was faulty..it wasn't allowing for the steady flow of fuel. Also, make sure the clamps on the end of the fuel line are fasten properly. Some lines are very cheaply made and will allow air to be sucked in at those points.

Good luck.

Edited by - on

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2009 : 12:59:15

Hi Don,

Thanks for the suggestion. I had purchased a new line during the winter because I had the same suspicion as you mention. It is possible the new line could be problematic as well.

Tonight I replace the spark plugs run a test. I shall test the second ignition coil as well.

I'll post an update as I move from task to task.

Thanks, Don..

BTW - What kind of motor do you use on your boat?

Edited by - on

Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2009 : 13:15:44

Deric,

Years ago when I was a 2 cycle guy I had problems with my 2 cycle. My brother suggested using this stuff called engine tuner that is made for 2 cycle engines. He had used it the 115hp he had on his ski boat. All I can say was it was like night and day after using it.

Here is a web site i found that talks about it:
http://theoutboardwizard.bizhosting.com/engine_tuner_omc_standard_non_injection_hose_can_engine_tuner.html

This stuff is like carberator cleaner for 2 strokes. Make sure if you buy it it indicates 2 cycle. Regular carb cleaner will breakdown the oil and cause major problems.

Edited by - on

Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2009 : 05:18:58

Hi Deric, When I realized my 2 cycle was really on it's last leg, I searched the many (and I do mean many) different threads on this site to see what the other Catalina 25 owners recommended. Do a search on "Tohatsu". I decided on the Tohatsu 9.8 xl shaft. I've had the motor a little over a year now and it works beautifully. I mostly single hand so between the new roller furler and the new motor, I'm getting out on the water more than ever...2 to 3 times a week. I think the deciding factor in my decision to purchase this particular motor, was that JimB pushes his Catalina more than anyone on this site and he highly recommended the motor as well. Whatever motor you go with, definitely research for a new motor mount and of course the different type of backing plates for the mount...with my new motor mount, my grandmother can raise and lower my Tohatsu with no problem.

And remember, If you purchase the motor through the link on this site (onlineoutboards.com) you'll get the association discount

Good luck.

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2009 : 10:12:28

When my old but not obsolite 2 stroke johnson gave out, it was a blessing. I went from 3-4 repairs a season with several times on/off the boat, to perfect reliability. The new Nissan 9.8 only required scheduled maintenance for the 2.5 yrs I owned it and is now with the new owner. I figure in retrospect, I could have sailed about 6 extra months if I replaced it from the start.

Tom

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2009 : 12:43:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Deric
 4) Good idea, check the compression, I haven't done that task. I shall research to learn how to perform the test.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">A simple if somewhat imprecise test is the following:

1. Remove one spark plug.
2. Pull the starter cord slowly, feeling the spikes of resistance--the compression in the other cylinder.
3. Replace the plug and remove the other one.
4. Repeat step 2--it should feel the same.

Edited by - on

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2009 : 19:17:59

Update:

I brought the boat to the Marine last night and touched up the bottom areas that needed painting, the boat splashed this afternoon with the ol' troubling motor attached. There is something therapeutic about having a sailboat in the water -- even if the motor runs lousy.

In addition to preparing the boat, I have been reading about the new 4 stroke motors. Tohatsu is mentioned as the motor that is used by other brands, but at a lower cost because the branding is not the same. Although I have more playing with the ol' motor, and research going about with other solutions, when I was loading the sailboat at the Marina I mentioned my motor whoes to another sailor. His response to my story, "Hey, I got a motor for sale, would you like to see it? It runs well."

Okay so I have his number and I'll check it out. Nonetheless, it is good to have options.

I am interested in knowing what the association discount is at the onlineoutboards.com.

Very good information in here.

More to follow......

Best,
Deric

Edited by - on

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2009 : 18:22:34

Hello Folks,

Here is an update.

I was at the Marina recently telling a fellow sailor my woes with the motor.

He says, "Sounds like air in the line, Did you replace the hose?"
I replied, "Yes, during the winter I had new hose, and new connectors. All is brand new."
My new friend paused and indicated that he had air in his line even after he replaced the hose on his motor.
As he walked toward my boat he waved to me and loudly shouted, "Come on, start her up for me I want to see what is going on."

I started the motor and it ran rough, it eventually died, and I had to start it up again.
As the motor tried to stay running, sailor friend grabbed the fuel line, squeezed the bulb a few times, he played with the line by moving it about in the air as if to force an imaginary air bubble that trapped inside the fuel line toward the motor.

As the motor fought back, refusing to run well, my friend was relentless, like a highly skilled surgeon who was determined to make his patient -- my sick motor -- well again; he manipulated the choke; easing it out and then in, letting more fuel in the carb to compensate for the imaginary air bubble; always monitoring the behavior of the motor with each move he performed on the line, the choke, the bulb, and the throttle.

Then to my surprise the motor stopped gasping, and began to purr.
"What? I exclaimed, this motor has not sounded this good in a long time."

After the motor purred for a bit, it was throttled down to a calm idle. The motor didn't quit, didn't choke, spat, hiccup, or throw-up.

Now I was impressed, yet somewhat mystified. Can it be true? I thought, that all this time, my motor problems were related to air in the line somewhere?

Only time will tell. Although I had a glimmer of hope that the motor may be back working, I shall plan for another day this week to start it up and see how it runs.

Gee I hope it was that simple.

More to follow....

Deric

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2009 : 18:55:05

Take that guy sailing and buy him lots and lots of beer!

Edited by - on

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2009 : 10:47:43

Dan,

Your suggestion is right on. He gets lots of beer. I started the motor up again this past
weekend. Ran real smooth.

I have never owned a boat with a motor before because my previous boats were day sailor type boats. Having to go through the pain of trouble shooting a motor when it was merely air in the line has taught me a valuable lesson: test the basic causes of motor failure thoroughly.

Thank you, folks, for your time and attention to my plea for help.

I hope that this thread may help others regarding trouble-shooting a motor.

Best,
Deric

Edited by - on

Unsinkable2
Captain

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USA
273 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2009 : 12:08:21

I hope your problems are gone Deric! For me, I found a great solution to the old Honda 10 I fought all last year. After the Honda dealer ordered wrong part after wrong part, I finally found my solution at another dealer - Tohatsu.

No problems since.

(Now granted, my Honda 10 was an FB 100 - one of the early models. There were a lot of changes early on so it is really difficult to find parts for it.)

From everything I could read, the new Hondas are as good as the new Tohatsus. I just like the pricepoint of the Tohatsu better. I even bought the electric start version, but it always starts within a few pulls so I haven't bothered hooking up the battery permanently yet. Need to though - if I went overboard and my life depended on my petite admiral starting anything with a pull cord I'd surely die. I married her for her beauty, brains, and personality - not her ability to pull start an outboard in heavy weather.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2009 : 14:47:11

Skipper, it's hard to rationalize an electric starter on a tiny little sailboat outboard--until the first time you push the button!

Edited by - on

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