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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Anchor riding sail

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glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/11/2009 : 13:10:57

Based on past experiences and in anticipation of new sailing ventures this summer, I would like to fabricate an anchor riding sail. Arlyn - I reread your logs about both your poly prototype and the final design outlined in the 200(?) i]Mainsheet[/i]. The latter article, however, offered few details on the final design, e.g. with regard dimensions, spar materials and location of spars in the sail design, use of grommets, etc. Are these details documented elsewhere and would you be willing to share them? Any incite into whether or how you might modify the next generation of riding sail? Thanks. Anyone else have any experience in designing or using a riding sail?

Gerry Livingston, Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2009 : 13:46:07

Gerry,
I went with the [url="http://www.sailrite.com/Anchor-Riding-Sail-Kit-12-5-Sq-Feet?sc=2&category=7847"]kit from Sailrite[/url]. It was a simple build with step by step instructions and everything you need to build it except the sewing machine. The link above also has a video that shows how to build one. Even if you chose not to go with sailrite you still should take a few minutes and watch the video.

The riding sail does make a difference on our 250. However it does not eliminate the hunt completely.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 05/11/2009 13:46:58

glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2009 : 18:54:58

Tom...thanks for the link and the pic - great looking boat. Took a quick look at the Sailrite video - looks like a doable project...just need to find the time. Thanks again.

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2009 : 08:27:56

The SailRite kit was easy, took maybe an hour and a half. And that's because I was not used to the sewing machine!

highly recommended - reduced hunting considerably, especially after I started playing with the AP and finally figured out the sweet spot, sorta like hoving to, with the rudder exactly right and the riding sail trimmed perfectly.

sten

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JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2009 : 12:36:43

I actually cut up an old roller furling jib that came with boat and attached the 3 heavy duty corners to make a heavy storm riding sail, about 5 feet on an edge. However, this sail seems to be too small to stop my C-25 from hunting at anchor.

As was shown by someone on the Forum a while ago, I would suggest making a lightweight double riding sail out of a tarp or some other cloth with the sides led out to both cockpit winches at maybe a 45 degree angle.

I think a large double sided riding sail would work much better than my small triangular riding sail to keep the boat heading into the wind. It would be easy to test a simple tarp design before adding any fittings.

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2009 : 16:25:37

Gerry, if you're still interested I can provide more details on size and spars. The delta configuration did accomplish one of my priorities, it was quite. I did not want a noise maker in the night.

My estimate is that it only reduced hunting at anchor about 40%. A larger size might be more effective as the one that I made is fairly small.

I've written about this and I'm not sure the configuration of rode chalks on a C25, but I'm convinced that chalks off center a bit are part of the cause of the hunting and the c250 has a single chalk. Consequently, what I did to assist the riding sail was to form a double bowline knot to form a bridle in the anchor road with each loop going to the two bow cleats.

I discovered this one night while anchored in the lee of an island. The wind veered farther than expected and came around one side of the island and put us into misery. The bottom surface was limestone that required diving and breaking the anchor into the limestone and there was no way I was going to redo that at eleven pm in the dark.

We would sway on the road till the chop hit the boat broadside enough to roll the boat enough to heave us against the V berth sides making sleep impossible. I'd recalled thinking about a bridle once and this was certainly the time to check it out. Standing on my knees in the forward hatch, I crafted a bridle with equal loops and cleated them and lay back down. In a moment my wife asked what I'd just done as the boat had settled down and was no longer running over to be buffeted by the chop. We fell asleep with no more problems.

I really believe a rode bridle should be as much of the solution to rode hunting as is the riding sail. And... there are at least a couple of ways to do it. One is as I did, make a double bowline in the rode itself. The other is to make up a bridle that can be secured to the rode in some fashion. The advantage of the latter is that the bridle can be chaff guarded as it will use the bow cleats rather than a bow chalk unless the boat is equipped with dual chalks. I did inspect in the morning and had no visible rubbing spots at the bow from employing the double bowline.

In a nutshell, what the bridle does is arrest and limit the hunt each way. Almost as soon as the boat goes on one tack, the bridle taughtens on that side and leverages it back.

[url="http://pages.suddenlink.net/arlyn/sailing/bridle.html"]Anchor Rode Bridle[/url]

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 05/12/2009 16:34:54

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2009 : 16:46:57

Did the sailrite thing too!

Sweet, well worth the effort and learnt a lot about putting sails together.

Now, if I had a sewing machine with a 10' throat, then .....

Paul

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glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2009 : 17:13:01

Arlyn, yes I still am very interested in your delta sail design and thanks for reminding us about the value of using a bridle for the anchor rode. Your approach appears to offer both substantially better and quieter performance than many. The 3+ boat units that BannerMarine is asking for their delta sail is out of my reach but offers yet a slight modification on the design. Looking again at the traditional design, I found this article by S. Christensen in [url="http://www.boatus.com/goodoldboat/horsing.asp"]<i>Good Old Boat</i>[/url] to be very good. Interestingly, Sailrite recommends to reduce hunting that "traditional" riding sails not be flown on the centerline from the backstay but to one side of the boat or the other.

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2009 : 10:59:37

I have a sailing buddy who purchased a delta wing riding sail two years ago. It keeps his C&C Redwing riding nice and steady on his mooring and is supposed to be more efficient than the tradional riding sail. I don't recall the name but it's advertised in the back of Sail magazine every month.

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Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2009 : 18:04:08

I bought the sailrite kit also and my wife and I put it together in about an hour and a half. It is inexpensive but very very durable. It works very well.

One thing to remember is read the instructions on how to mount it to the boat. It does not go from the mast centerline back, but from a stanchion on the port or starboard of the mast to the rear stay. Almost stopped all hunting especially in high wind.

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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2009 : 13:50:06

I agree with Arlyn, but suggest a slightly different kind of bridle, and we have discussed this in times past. The Pardey's wrote about it in Self Sufficient Sailor, or one of their other "how to" books.

The concept of off-center chocks (not chaulks) is not valid, inasmuch as those of us with centered bow rollers have the same issue. Just moving the center of pull from the side to the center, as Arlyn did with his bridle, only helps a little bit as he notes.

A "side-tie" anchor bridle is simple. It sets the pull of the anchor off to the side of the boat. Here's how: anchor normally, then tie a rolling hitch to your anchor line forward of the pulpit, run it outside the stanchions and back to the jib sheet winch - choice of side is yours, then let some more anchor rode out to get the rolling hitch down near the water line. Adjust this bridle with the winch to suit the conditions. It reduces hunting and can also be used to cock the boat if you are in a condition where the waves and wind are opposed.

Doesn't need a sewing machine either.

Edited by - Stu Jackson C34 on 05/15/2009 13:59:36

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2009 : 15:08:44

I've tried something like Stu's side tie--it's sorta like heaving to, so the boat works fore and aft in the wind, but stays on one "tack". The "wing" sail pulls the stern away from the anchor somewhat, rather than sailing out wide--probably the best solution. I simulated that once (sorta) with a tarp tied to the stern rail like a parachute--it helped. If the majority of the windage is aft of the CLR, hunting is substantially reduced.

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2009 : 05:00:54

I bought my anchor riding sail from Gary Swenson at Ullman. He fabricated it when I bought a new mainsail from him. I believe it was about 85 bucks, which is cheaper than the kit from sailrite.
I'm not sure what he would charge if you were not buying a new sail. It's worth checking out.
By the way, it's of excellent quality, and it reduced hunting considerably. We observed the diffference between my 89 wing with Dwight's 89 wing while we were both anchored out at Dry Tortugas. Quite a difference between a boat with one and without.

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keydup
Deckhand

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10 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2009 : 16:43:00

I have wondered id an old sunfish sail would work for this, or is that too large? Any Ideas?

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