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ROTATOR CUFF SURGERY AND SAILING??

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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Initially Posted - 05/12/2009 : 07:49:33

HAS ANYONE EXPERIENCE WITH RECENT ROTATOR CUFF SURGERY AND SAILING DUTIES? I'VE UNDERGONE THE REPAIR APRIL 10th AND THE PROSPECTS OF SOLO SAILING CALISTA SEEM DIM. THE BOAT IS RIGGED WITH ALL LINES LED TO THE COCKPIT. SHE HAS ROLLER FURLING WHICH SHOULD BE MANAGABLE AND AN '06 NISSAN 4 STROKE. PROBLEM IS THAT SHE IS STILL ON THE HARD AND COVERED. I'LL NEXT SEE MY SURGEON ON THE 26 0F MAY BY WHICH TIME I HOPE TO HAVE HER IN THE WATER.

ANY HELPFUL SUGGESTIONS?

VAL ON THE HARD, DAGNABIT # 3936, PATCHOGUE, N.Y.

Val Bisagni]

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 05/12/2009 : 08:04:48

Do what I did?

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/12/2009 08:06:33

piseas
Former Treasurer

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Response Posted - 05/12/2009 : 09:52:14

Val, I have had(and still do) a bad shoulder for over a year now. Xray did not show anything torn but someone else said you can only tell with a MRI. How was yours discovered?
I have had 3 cortisone shots so far for relief. Doc says I can have 1 more in a year span and then will do MRI.
Anyway, I do not know what event caused mine. But pulling starter cord on my Tohatsu on the dinghy my be the culprit. Luckily I have push button on PiSeas II. Like you, it is a concern. If I have to give up sailing, I will probably shoot myself or go to the dark side like Dave.
Steve A

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 05/12/2009 : 09:59:59

Val,
My rotator cuff was basically destroyed, three of the four tendons were torn, two "badly" and one "horrendously" to quote my orthopedic surgeon, and my biceps tendon looked like a dog had chewed on it in the pictures I saw. He said that I was weeks away from the biceps tendon breaking, and I was already incapable of lifting my arm beyond about 30 degrees from vertical. Surprisingly even coming right out of surgery I could tell my arm was in better shape, although that could have been the meds talking. They had me in rehab less than 10 hours after surgery, and I did about six months of 3x a week PT afterward. I think the physical therapy was the key. At the time I mostly single handed my San Juan 21 and while I didn't spend a lot of time sailing in the following year or so, I'm now to the point where I seldom think about my shoulder, and I'm able to chop wood with an axe or maul, use a hand plane, shovel snow, etc. Those were things I thought I'd never do again. My shoulder aches occasionally, especially if I'm working overhead with any weight, like a drill in my hand, but it's a temporary ache, and might hurt for 2-3 days, but I figure that's just weakness leaving my body to quote the USMC. I wouldn't expect that you'll get a lot of sailing in this season, at least not by yourself, but by next, you'll be in great shape.

Stay with the PT, it makes all the difference. I'd talk to your doctor about sailing the boat by yourself, mine is a sports enthusiast and mostly practices sports medicine, so he was a great believer in getting out & doing what you used to do to keep the joint in motion. The more you use it, the faster it heals, and the less it hurts.

Steve,
I went through the steriod injections as well (nothing like an 8" needle under your shoulder blade, huh?), for about the same period as you, roughly a year. It made a lot of difference in the pain level, but the damage had been done. I had an MRI shot of the joint, and the expression on my doctor's face was priceless when he looked at them. He asked me "what did you do to your shoulder?". Anyway, I was scheduled for surgery immediately. In my experience, having the surgery done was one of the best things that's ever happened to me, and I'd highly recommend it, YMMV.

Edited by - delliottg on 05/12/2009 10:15:36

piseas
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Response Posted - 05/12/2009 : 10:52:43

David, funny but the 8" needle?(I never saw it as I faced the wall in docs office), didn't bother me. It was a strange feeling but I didn't experience any pain.
So sounds like MRI was how they saw damage and not Xray. I might have to push that but do I really want to know! I baby shoulder and only 3 or 4 times a year drop a hook-pulling it out of the mud is a real pain- and even then try to get crew to do that. I NEVER let the Admiral do that!
I did go thru couple months of PT which did very little. The shots were a great help-with the pain.
Steve A

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Dave5041
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Response Posted - 05/12/2009 : 11:15:11

Ask your Doc. Religiously following the regimen is the difference between good and poor results. Everyone I know (4) who's shoulder was better but not great after surgery did more or less than they were supposed to do. Two of us were aggressive in PT but didn't go beyond guidelines and are good as newand maybe better. I was not allowed to sail for the summer season after surgery (surgery in May) d/t the possibility of the unexpected fall or lurch and grab putting undue stress on the repair, but I was cleared for January in Pensacola. We all know that sailing can change from measured effort to desperation in an instant. Trade one season now for the better enjoyment of future seasons - you'll live with the shoulder for the rest of your life.

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johnsonp
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606 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2009 : 11:25:52

After 30 years I still have to do the surgical tubing exercises but that is what brought me back .

paulj

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Derek Crawford
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Response Posted - 05/12/2009 : 13:44:56

When you are doing physiotherapy the old adage holds true "no pain, no gain". The shoulder is the hardest joint in the body to rehabilitate completely and needs extra special devotion to physio.
(And yes, I have had to do it!)

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delliottg
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Response Posted - 05/12/2009 : 14:09:11

Steve,
Were I you, I'd want to know now, so I could get it fixed sooner, so I'd have the rest of my life with a working wing. If the repair is small enough, they can do it laparascopically and you'll only have 2-3 tiny holes in your shoulder, and the rehab time is considerably shorter. However, if you let it go longer, you'll end up with a Frankenstein scar like mine, plus the three little ones to boot.

Val,
Like pretty much everyone else has said, stick with your PT, it's the only thing that's going to bring the shoulder back. My PT instructor figured that I got back 95%+ of my range of motion, but there are still things I can't do with my right arm that I can with my left, the un-cut one. Taking one season off to gain the rest of the seasons in front of you seems like good advice to me.

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Dave5041
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Response Posted - 05/12/2009 : 19:18:54

I've got more things that I can't with my un-repaired arm than the repaired one.

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tinob
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Response Posted - 05/13/2009 : 08:20:00

WOW ! THANKS ALL FOR YOUR REPLIES. HOPE YOU DON'T MIND IF I JUMP AROUND IN MY RESPONSES. I HAD FIVE X-RAYS, ONE CAT-SCAN AND FINALLY AN MRI...THE FIRST TWO SHOWED ONLY HARD TISSUE/ NOT WHERE THE DAMAGE WAS. IT WAS THE MRI THAT SHOWED SOFT TISSUE DAMAGE AND THAT INVOLVED TOTAL SEPARATION OF THE TENDONS. IN ORDER TO FIX THOSE MALADIES IT WAS NECESSARY TO DRILL INTO THE BALL OF THE HUMOR AND AND INSERT AN ANCHOR FROM WHICH SEVERAL LINES PROTRUDED. THESE LINES IN TURN WERE USED TO ATTACH THE TENDONS BACK FROM WHERE THEY CAME. INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH THEY CLAIM THAT WITH SPECIAL PREPARATION TO THE BONE SITE THE TENDON WILL EVENTUALLY REATTACH. THE ORTHOPEDIST EVEN LIKENED THE FUSION AS BEING SIMILAR TO A BARNACLE'S ATTACHMENT TO THE BOTTOM OF MY SAILBOAT.

EVERYONE TO WHOM I SPOKE MADE IT CLEAR THAT THE ONLY WAY TO PROCEED FOLOWING SURGERY WAS TO DO THE PHYSICAL THERAPY THING, AND THAT'S WHAT I'M UP TO NOW. MAN IT'S MIDDLE NAME IS PAIN. IT MAY BE MY DEMENTIA BUT I'M THINKING THAT THE REASON WHY ALL MY THERAPISTS ARE WOMEN IS THAT MEN WOULD RATHER SHOOT YOU OUTRIGHT THAN INFLICT SO MUCH SUFFERING ON A FELLOW HUMAN BEING.

VAL ON THE HARD DAGNABIT,#3936, PATCHOGUE, N.Y.

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delliottg
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Response Posted - 05/13/2009 : 09:03:03

Val,
I had a similar reattachment of my biceps tendon, it's no longer attached to my shoulder, it's basically stapled to a groove in my right humerus with a titanium staple, then some SS mesh holds some other stuff together. I fully expected to set off the sensors the next time I flew, but so far so good.

My physical therapist was also a woman, a little tiny one, and her two backup therapists were also small women. In fact I think there was only one guy who worked there, and he generally worked with women. I wonder if that's deliberate? I don't think she took any pleasure in my pain, but sometimes I wondered. She was very strict at first, making sure I did every single little thing, but once she was convinced I was working hard at the rehab, she backed off somewhat. She is probably one of the main reasons my shoulder is doing so well these days, and I got a chance to thank her a couple of years ago. I ran into her at a Starbucks and sat & talked with her for a few minutes to let her know how well I was doing thanks to her. I think it made her day, or at least I hope it did.

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Turk
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Response Posted - 05/13/2009 : 19:48:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tinob
 HAS ANYONE EXPERIENCE WITH RECENT ROTATOR CUFF SURGERY AND SAILING DUTIES? I'VE UNDERGONE THE REPAIR APRIL 10th AND THE PROSPECTS OF SOLO SAILING CALISTA SEEM DIM. THE BOAT IS RIGGED WITH ALL LINES LED TO THE COCKPIT. SHE HAS ROLLER FURLING WHICH SHOULD BE MANAGABLE AND AN '06 NISSAN 4 STROKE. PROBLEM IS THAT SHE IS STILL ON THE HARD AND COVERED. I'LL NEXT SEE MY SURGEON ON THE 26 0F MAY BY WHICH TIME I HOPE TO HAVE HER IN THE WATER.

ANY HELPFUL SUGGESTIONS?

VAL ON THE HARD, DAGNABIT # 3936, PATCHOGUE, N.Y.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Last season I has surgery on a finger on my right hand. Put a damper on the sailing until I saw this thread:

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15673

Built this self tacker for myself and it worked beautifully. Remember not to push yourself too hard after surgery even if you feel better. I re-injured my hand and cause my healing to take much longer than it should have.

Edited by - on

Rich G
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226 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2009 : 14:24:07

I had shoulder surgery 2 months before I bought my boat. I was in PT for nearly a year. Although I could perform most of my sailing crew duties when we sailed from Buzzard's Bay to NYC (5 months after surgery), I was glad I was not alone.

I had a bone spur removed, not rotator cuff damage. I think that was probably more traumatic as they had to grind the clavicle smooth.

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/17/2009 : 09:22:02

Hi Rich,

Glad your surgery and recovery went so smoothly. My problem was somewhat different than that which you describe. When I fell I severed some tendons and to repair the shoulder to NORMAL function it was necessary to drill into the ball of the humerus and set an anchor with several lines leading from it. These lines in turn were used to sew the tendons back into place and to hold them in place until they reattached

. Except for PT the only activity that I'm allowed on my own is a process called STIRRING THE POT. This is accomplished by leaning so the torso is horizontal and while letting the arm hang limp toward the floor, you move the arm in circles , as though you were stirring a pot, first in one direction then the other. After six weeks of this I'll meet with the surgeons for an evaluation (progress report). Hopefully with a psychiatrist to determine if I'm still lucid.

. I find it interesting that my arm circles are in sync with my heart beat. Wonder why?

Val on the hard DAGNABIT, # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

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Rich G
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Response Posted - 05/17/2009 : 09:31:56

I remember those little circles!

Vicadin was my friend for a very long time.

I don't envy you your recovery period, but do EVERYTHING YOUR PT TELLS YOU and you'll be fine. I think it was nearly 3 months before I was cleared for any kind of "normal" activity, but didn't feel even close to recovered for almost a year.

Just keep remembering to squeeze your shoulder blades before doing anything like pulling on a line, rowing or anything similar. It'll be a while, however . . .

Edited by - Rich G on 05/17/2009 09:32:30

tinob
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Response Posted - 05/18/2009 : 11:14:22

Rich...
Thanks for the encouragement, but I'm needing help with" squeeze your shoulder blades" WHAZZAT" ?

Val on the hard DAGNABIT, # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

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Rich G
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Response Posted - 05/18/2009 : 11:56:14

Well, don't take my word for it because I'm not a doctor or physical therapist, but my left should slumped forward after my accident mainly because I was using my biceps to compensate for the weak shoulder. My PT kept telling me to squeeze my shoulder blades together before exerting any effort in an attempt to retrain the correct muscles to do the work. This mainly came into play further along in the therapy when I was working with the surgical bands.

It was also an isometric exercise.

My shoulders still aren't completely even, but if you're not a PT or Alexander Technique instructor you'd never notice.

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Gloss
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Response Posted - 05/18/2009 : 18:58:30

Hey Val,
I'm currently rehabbing a partial thickness rotator cuff tear, so I feel your pain. Did it while skiing in Colorado in February, first morning of first day.
I'm self directing the physical therapy with suggestions from my orthopedic surgeon. I'm not so sure that's the right way. I would have paid for a good physical therapist who knows how to transition therapy to training, but those folks are hard to find.
My orthopod said that turning a winch would be a very bad thing to do right now. So when I race my 32 I stay at the wheel.
Several years ago another physical therapist suggested that I work my rhomboid muscles, which are the ones which squeeze your shoulder blades together in order to balance out my shoulders, and help my posture too, as I was working my chest muscles too much and not my back.
Many years of whitewater kayaking has certainly hurt my shoulders too.
Having watched many shoulder operations while I do the anesthesia, I concur with the earlier comment that it can get extremely complex. Glad my injury isn't bad enough to warrant surgery. Good thing, as I'm racing this weekend

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tinob
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Response Posted - 05/19/2009 : 06:21:04

Hi Frank, good to hear you back on this site...it's been a while. So all this while I've been squeezing my rhomboids and didn't know it. It feels very relaxing.

It seems , as I review my past 78 years, that much of my favored activities, have led to this condition. I'll not bore you with a list of these but sliding head first into a base I see today as being possibly most to be avoided. I winch when watching baseball.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT,# 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

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Gloss
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Response Posted - 05/23/2009 : 09:37:01

Hey val,
I really haven't left. I have been more active on the Ericson site.
but I did send in my dues anyways.
I have been involved with many surgeries after folks slide into second base. But doing anesthesia on an athelete is far easier than an obese sedentary cigarette smoker. With that in mind, I have lost 21 pounds so far this year.

Keep up the shoulder rehab Val

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 05/23/2009 : 09:55:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">But doing anesthesia on an athelete is far easier than an obese sedentary cigarette smoker<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Frank,
I know that his is true, but can you explain why? Does the anesthetic become absorbed into the adipose tissue making it harder to judge how much is necessary? I can see where smoking could make it harder simply because of lower oxygen absorption rates (and thankfully I've never smoked). I've only been anesthetized on a few occasions, but it's never pleasant, and pain killers generally nauseate me, so unless I'm in a LOT of pain I stick to Tylenol / Ibuprofen / Aleve.

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tinob
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Response Posted - 05/24/2009 : 09:01:00

Well tomorrow is the first evaluation of how well I'm recouperating. Hope I get the green flag. In any event the boat will go in shortly after the meeting.

Val on the hard, DAGNABIT, # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

tinob
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Response Posted - 05/27/2009 : 10:06:43

Well the surgical confab went well....I'm out of the brace if I want to be...and PT goes into a new phase in which I'm allowed to raise my arm without assistance (as in pulling down on a halyard maybe

). Having been without the security/confine of the brace the shoulder was really stiff today. And needing additional manipulation(PAIN)as a reminder of who and where I am.

Tomorrow I try to climb into the boat and remove the cover. Gotta plan a safety harness lest I break something else

Val on the hard DAGNABIT, # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

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