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Two-stoke engines in CA

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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/09/2002 : 16:24:38

There were previous posts on this forum referring to state-wide regulations which would ban the use of two-stroke engines in California. Apparently, no such regulations exist and none are being planned. Here is a link http://www.thelog.com/news/newsview.asp?c=4390 which helps clarify the situation.

Sounds like it was just fear tactics used by some to sell more new 4-stroke engines.

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

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125 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2002 : 19:41:57

Richard, as a citizen of the Golden state you my be aware of the following. By the way I have no axe to grind, I have a Honda 4 stroke on my C250, and am in no way involved in selling motors. That having been said the following ARE true. 1. The letter was written by the California Department of Boating and Waterways. They have nothing to do with either legislation or even recommendation of rulings in the state. 2. They do refer to the decision makers the Cal air resources board. There are about 6-7 regional air quality management districts in California. Each regional board makes their own rules for that region, and they are binding without any public input if they so choose. And those rules are not binding on any other region in the state. 3.Yes some of the restrictions will be grandfathered to allow the use of some existing motors owned by boaters, but you can clearly see where this is headed. 4.Yes there are only 11 lakes in the state that have restricted the use of 2- stroke motors. The biggest lake is Lake Tahoe ( that may be the biggest lake in California , I'm not sure) Now....let's do some figuring....how many lakes are there in california....Thousands. How man are big enough to enjoy sailing with a 25 foot Catalina, where you don't have to tack every 3 minutes ? In Northern California south to Bakersfield, you can count maybe 6-8 decent sized lakes that are big enough to sail on....Berryessa, Clearlake, Tahoe, Shasta, San Luis, and maaayyybee one or two others.
So in reality as far a northern California is concern, aside from the Delta, S.F bay, or the coastal cruising areas MOST of our usable sailing lakes are restricted from using 2-strokes. Maybe we California sailors should join the majority of business, and move somewhere else to sail. I humbly welcome your comments

Gclarke C250 WB left coast

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Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2002 : 14:40:10

I realize that you sail mostly in the Berryessa area but kindly pull out a map and count all lakes along the western slope of the Sierras and you will be amazed at the number. A short list would include Orville, Folsom, Comanche, New Hogan, New Melones, Don Pedro, McClure, Millerton, Huntington, Shaver, Isabella and that doesn't include the smaller irrigation lakes like Woodward, Modesto, Turlock, Tullock, Yosemite.
Before this discussion becomes a good vs bad issue just keep in mind that all of these lakes feed a huge domestic water system. Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, the entire Southern Coast from San Luis Obispo to Santa Barbara all depend on imported water. It won't be too long before these communities will look up stream regardless of which water quality control board is involved. Yes they are separate but they are linked in a very real way. Richard sails the great Pacific Ocean but there are still water quality issues in our harbors. I certainly don't have any insight to what the regulations of the future will be but we can be sure that they won't continue the same and in all likelyhood will get stricter. Most of these lakes still have 2 stroke motors allowed. In fact the rental boats at my marina all had new 2 stroke outboards put on them this spring.

By the way, I learned to sail on a Snark at Lake Berryessa many years ago. Grew up in Walnut Creek when we still harvested walnuts.

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

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Response Posted - 10/10/2002 : 15:09:39

Ed, That must be 2-3 years ago in Walnut Creek, Ha-ha, cause I doubt if you could find many standing walnut trees at all in Walnut Creek now.
Next month I'm saying "good-bye" to Lake Berryessa. I've sailed a C22 there for 3 years, and now my c250 for almost three years. I'm heading for salt. In November ( after renewing the ani-fouling, and checking the zincs, and getting a 2nd reef put in the main) I'll be taking a slip in Vallejo, so I can be a real "bay sailor". It will be a new set of experiences, because like most lake sailors, I haven't had to contend with tides, currents, salt issues, nor consistent winds. I've gotten tired of inconsistent, quirky, and non-existant winds at a lake, so now in S.F bay, I can let it blow
( and many days it really does !). The big plus is that from the time I leave my front door, I can be at the boat in about 20 minutes instead of the hour and a half, with winding mountain roads, it took at the lake. Wish me luck, I'm still not too comfortable with 20+ winds, but hey 2nd reef, 3rd reef, bare poles, I'll survive

GClarke C250 Left coast

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Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2002 : 17:14:31

Lucky dog!!!! Enjoy.

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2002 : 18:24:37

Gary:

That's great news that you are now closer to your boat. I moved last year, which reduced my "boat commute" from 30 minutes to 10 minutes -- even with just that, it was huge!

It sounds like you are much closer than I to the inner workings of government. I think most would agree with you in that the trend is towards more laws limiting the use of 2-stroke engines. As the Delta is a far more closed environment than San Francisco Bay or the Pacific Ocean, and thus more at risk to pollutants, it could be next. But no one has come close to convincing me that those using 2-strokes in salt water have anything to worry about for quite a long while.

If I were limited to sailing only inland lakes (in northern California or elsewhere), I would probably use a 4-stroke engine -- not because a law required me to do so, but because I feel the best advantage of 4-stroke engines is that it’s superior in terms of its significantly reduced emissions of water pollutants. And as pollutants in any amount in the drastically smaller and more closed environment of an inland lake have a much greater negative impact on water quality than they do in a much larger open saltwater environment (aka “the solution to pollution is dilution”), I think the environmental advantage which a 4-stroke provides is significantly diminished in most saltwater envirenments. While the debate of two vs. four-stroke engines is endless and no doubt will continue on this forum and others, I will probably continue to use a 2-stroke as long as I am able (other than if I was in the above situation, which I don’t foresee). If my 18 year old Suzuki 2-stroke were to die today, I would likely take a drive to Oregon to replace it (no sales tax also).

I believe a much greater threat to our boating freedom are laws related to the toxic algae, Caulerpa taxifolia http://www.thelog.com/news/newsview.asp?c=3208 -- that could really screw up the activities of a lot more California boaters.

“Long live the 2-stroke and curtain burner!”

Uh oh!!!

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

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Ed Montague
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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2002 : 01:14:32

My answer to the curtain burner.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d820b3127cce9e413b8e10e40000001410" border=0>

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2002 : 01:35:05

Ed:

That's very nice -- from here, I can (almost) smell the bread baking! As Thanksgiving is coming up soon, can you fit a small turkey in there?

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

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Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2002 : 00:13:03

We might just give the turkey bake a try soon.

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

Edited by - Ed Montague on 10/15/2002 00:14:23

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