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 Autopilot question-Rudder Gain Setting		  New Topic  Topic Locked
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windsong
Captain

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USA
318 Posts
Initially Posted - 05/29/2009 :  14:11:57  Show Profile
I just installed a ST6002 SmartPilot (Raymarine S1) on my Catalina 250 WK (wheel steering). I've been having a terrible time getting it to work. It starts a tack, then gives up at head-to-wind. Other times it works perfectly. Sometimes loses its heading altogether. I've been playing with all the various settings in the commissioning guide, and bit by bit, I'm getting it to work better. Still a little flaky. The one setting I have not touched is "Rudder Gain." And indeed, the rudder seems very slow to react. So I am about ready to begin monkeying with it. It is currently set to 2. Does anyone have any experience with this unit? Do you happen to know what your Rudder Gain is set to? Better yet, what are all of your settings set to? I'm getting dizzy from sailing all these circles, and more than a little surprised that tuning this device has been so exasperating. My friends with bigger boats say they just plug them in and they work. They've never seen anyone go through what I'm going through. Is there something about the C250 wheel steering that is unusual?
Sorry, lots of questions in this post. You get the idea. Thoughts? Guidance anyone?

Michael Hetzer
"Windsong"
2009 Catalina 250 WK HN984
Myrtle Beach, SC
Edited by - windsong on 05/29/2009 15:18:22

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts
Response Posted - 05/29/2009 :  14:40:42  Show Profile
C25's or Capri 25's with a wheel or a real rarity so I'd suggest you post this on the C250 forum as well. While some people check out all the forums others may not. Arlyn Stewart has a wheel 250 and an autopilot and has posted before on various settings. Others will likely chime in as well.
Edited by - Nautiduck on 05/29/2009 14:41:49
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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts
Response Posted - 05/29/2009 :  15:09:08  Show Profile  Visit delliottg's Homepage
Michael,
One thing you might look into, is your fluxgate compass mounted near a magnetic source? Speakers, tin cans, toolboxes, analog compasses, etc., can all affect the compass setting. I was out for a test sail a couple of months ago on a catamaran. The owner's daughter had a little metal tin of stuff that she kept in her little stateroom. Guess what was on the other side of the bulkhead? The boat kept yawing about 30+ degrees either side of our intended course.
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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts
Response Posted - 05/30/2009 :  08:30:50  Show Profile  Visit Arlyn Stewart's Homepage
Yes, a wheel pilot on a 250 is a bit unusual in part because the 250 requires such a large rudder. Default settings may then not be in the ballpark for good operation.

I don't have that particular pilot but do have one of its predecessors. An important issue to keep in mind is that if a particular event gets out of bounds... the pilot will abort. For example, it auto tack is used and when the pilot attempts to come to the post tack course, if the boat falls off too far because of poor rudder grip or some boat balance issue, the pilot will abort and not try to regain the correct post tack course.

Which model of 250 do you have? If you have the water ballast with the 3rd generation rudder, the rudder has inadequate grip for good autopilot operation. That rudder is designed to have maximum grip at high alpha angles of attack... and that will confuse the pilot big time because the pilot may have to drive the rudder 15 degrees beyond course trying to hold a course. If the wind slackens slightly and the heel angle lessens, the high alpha rudder setting then lurches the boat to the exaggerated course it is at. Then, the pilot has to respond to the lurch and correct the lurched course only to be forced to drive the rudder into high alpha again. Its like a cat trying to catch its tail.

If you have the wing keel...disregard these comments because it should have adequate rudder grip without a need for high alpha angles of attack as that rudder is a foot or so longer than the water ballast rudder.
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SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts
Response Posted - 05/30/2009 :  22:32:09  Show Profile
for slower sailing ..it helps if the gain is tured up
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windsong
Captain

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USA
318 Posts
Response Posted - 06/01/2009 :  15:36:08  Show Profile
The WheelPilot is working now. Thanks for all the advise. Bottom line, I gave up too easily. It took some fiddling to dial it in, but now it works like charm. Today was my first time single-handing with the an autopilot. Wow, what a great way to sail! I just moseyed up to the bow, then moseyed back to the cockpit, then moseyed down below for some water. Took my time flaking the mainsail as I motored back to the dock. I loved it. Here is the settings "cocktail" that I'm using:
Response - 2
Rudder Gain - 6 (this seems high, I know, but it works)
Trim - Default (never touched it)
Rudder Arm Type - 3
My compass deviation = 3 degrees

Thanks again, everyone.
Edited by - windsong on 06/01/2009 15:41:01
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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.