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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Wind Power

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Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/26/2009 : 10:11:13

Is anyone using wind power to charge batteries?
I would like to take one of those new "note books" out to write and need more than my solar trickle charger.
In Martinique I saw a French boat with a wind mill that they took out and clamped on the bow once they set the hook.
I don't want or think a C-25 could stand a tower.
Any thoughts, experiences?
TIA

John Gisondi
Peregrine #4762

*

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2009 : 11:24:28

Take a read through [url="http://www.naviclub.com/Test_comparatif_eoliennes_marine.pdf"]this[/url].

One of the micro-turbines might do the trick.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2009 : 11:48:50

John Vining has a wind turbine on his C25. It is mounted on an aluminum pole behind the gas locker. Works great.

John hasn't been on the forum in several years but I'm sure his email is availble to members.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2009 : 17:01:17

I haven't read the article yet but the current issue of Cruising World has an article on small chargers and I noticed a wind generator among them. It's pretty small and I don't know how much juice it creates.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2009 : 18:53:17

I read the cruising world article, and it is just for phones, ipods, and the like.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5378 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2009 : 20:56:50

Just a few specs. A laptop computer takes somewhere between 90 and 120 W to recharge the batteries, but can operate on about 70 to 100 W.

There are several options in your "Power Settings" in the Control Panel to save on power, like switching off the wireless card, turning off the screen, setting the disk to idle and even slowing down the processor so it will draw less.

The AirX wind generator is very common on smaller boats. It creates about 400W at 28 kts wind speed, so you'd have more than enough power for your laptop and a few other appliances.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5378 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2009 : 19:35:11

John
It just so happens that this month's SAIL Magazine has reviewed both wind and water generators. It's definitely worth taking a look at.

I also receive Practical Sailor Magazine, and a few months ago, they reviewed the performance of several wind power generators. Since they are not advertiser-supported, they can be and are brutal in their reviews.

That's all good news for us.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2009 : 06:22:53

I have spec'd vertical turbine generators for work stuff before since they take less space and can generate at the same rate as a horizontal axis.

I wonder why no one has clued into this in the sailing community. A vertical axis at its simplest form is one of those signs that spins that you see on th eedge of the road encouraging folks to go in for a car wash.

It seems to me that you could easil mount one (or more) on stanctions or bow pulpit and let it spin all day long without interfering with anything.

Here is an example... http://www.mariahpower.com/windspire-photo-video-gallery.aspx

Edited by - Prospector on 07/29/2009 06:52:10

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2009 : 06:43:19

Wind generators typically only generate current when the wind speed is above 15 knots and then they don't really crank it out until the wind speed is 22-25 knots. Unless you are on a ball or have really good ground tackle, you probably won't want to be out there in a C25 anyway. Myself not included provided I had a dodger and good ground tackle... I digress. Solar and extra batteries might be a better solution although I think that a C25 with a windgen would definately turn heads. Makes you look bluewater anyway.

I have seen mini windgens on the MiniTransats in Newport. They looked like fans really with their encased housing for the blades et al... I'll look for a link, but that may be what you want. Either that or blow out the battery banks and pick up a dock once in awhile to recharge.

sten

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2009 : 07:21:20

Interesting... The vertical axis makes it omni-directional (no need to pivot), but it means that, unlike a horizontal axis (propeller-style) generator, while one blade is pushing, at least one other blade is dragging. With a propeller, all blades are pushing at once. So it seems to me the propeller would scale down better.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2009 : 07:23:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Peregrine
 Is anyone using wind power to charge batteries?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">In Western Long Island Sound... what wind do you plan to use?

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2009 : 07:59:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Interesting... The vertical axis makes it omni-directional (no need to pivot), but it means that, unlike a horizontal axis (propeller-style) generator, while one blade is pushing, at least one other blade is dragging. With a propeller, all blades are pushing at once. So it seems to me the propeller would scale down better.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That is true, however, there is only 1 bearing (maintenance) in a vertical axis which is a thrust bearing at the base of the turbine. On a horizontal axis, there is a rotational bearing for the powerhead as well as a roller bearing for the turbine. Also, the transmission lines in a vertical axis turbine tend to be simpler for 2 reasons. First, there is no pivot head as in the horizontal axis which can cause twist in the wires, and second, the wires are not in the turbine head, they are in the base which is fixed, and do not move.

For a marine application I tend to think that fewer moving parts is an advantage.

There would be some drag on the trailing arm, but I can't imagine it being enough to adversely affect operation. Some of the more sophisticated designs use a helix rather than paddles.

The ultimate would be to design a mast with an integral vertical axis turbine, having the same strength as a standard mast. That would be too cool. I am not sure how you would overcome the gyroscopic forces when the boat heeled away from vertical, but to put the turbine at or near the masthead would be awesome.

Edited by - on

Scumbucket
1st Mate

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USA
53 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2009 : 08:22:50

http://www.windbluepower.com

You may find this interesting on the subject of Windgens. They sell parts to convert or you can buy a Permanent Magnet Alternator and come up with your own designs.

I have been pondering this for awhile, just have not acted on it.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2009 : 16:54:53

The general rule is that at least 10 kts is needed for reasonable power. Given your use, an expanded solar array would be best way to go, also no moving parts.

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Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2009 : 07:43:11

Many thanks. Good discussion.
Looks like I will stay with solar and my alternator for now but would love to see small wind generators in the future.
Does anyone have more than two batteries?

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2009 : 09:27:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Peregrine
 Many thanks. Good discussion.
Looks like I will stay with solar and my alternator for now but would love to see small wind generators in the future.
Does anyone have more than two batteries?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I had 5 on my C25... 3 under the aft berth

sten

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2009 : 12:56:53

John,
we had JD out this weekend and took our Acer Netbook with us. We were at anchor off Jones' Point on the southern tip of Elliott key on the eastern side of Biscayne Bay.

We have purchased a Car Adaptor (ciggerette lighter connector) for the netbook, cost about $20.00

The Acer was low on battery power when we got it out, but it worked great off the boat power using the adaptor.

We do have an 18watt solar power panel.

(We also have a 15" LCD Digital TV/DVD player which draws a lot more power than the netbook.)

Paul

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2009 : 18:36:12

Are the turbines noisy?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2009 : 18:50:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jerlim
 Are the turbines noisy?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">The ones I've motored by in anchorages and marinas drown out my 225 Honda with the whir of the blades and the whine of the generator. I couldn't imagine being on a boat with one--it's supposed to be peaceful!

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2009 : 05:36:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jerlim
 Are the turbines noisy?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes. Very. Although when down below when cold outside and the boat is shut down, the noise is tolerable. We have an AirX on Lysistrata and we typically turn it on when we leave the boat during the day and off at night. A few times I forgot to hit the switch and a storm will come up in the middle of the night and the wind gen will wake me up.

sten

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5378 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2009 : 18:44:10

What about water turbines?

I've read about them, where you trail one of them behind your boat while you're underway sailing.

The theory is that as you are passing through the sea water (or lakewater), the water turbine will spin and generate electrcity.

And, even if you're sitting at the mooring or dock in a few knots of current, you can be generating while sitting perfectly still!

You just have to wonder how a gizmo containing an alternator, a regulator, #10 wire cables and a big turbine could remain submerged in salt water for days and weeks on end without shorting something out! It really gives you a lot of respect for the design engineers of this equipment!

As I said, I've only read about them, never seen one or used one. It would be interesting to hear anybody's first-hand experience on the use and maintenance of them.

Edited by - on

crystal_blue
1st Mate

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USA
71 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2009 : 12:29:01

That guy with a Hunter 25.5 had one, but the link to his pics appears to be dead and [url="http://s2.sailboatowners.com/index.php?option=com_mtree&task=viewlink&link_id=7419&Itemid=99999999"]this[/url] is all I can find in Google. Maybe someone else will have better luck?

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2009 : 13:23:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 You just have to wonder how a gizmo containing an alternator, a regulator, #10 wire cables and a big turbine could remain submerged in salt water for days and weeks on end without shorting something out!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">We have circulators (electric motors with power cords and propellers) that sit in the salt water the entire winter, keeping ice from forming around our docks.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5378 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2009 : 17:04:41

Ah - the miracles of modern material science!

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