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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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Initially Posted - 07/31/2009 : 11:59:47

OK, I know it is only July but I'm starting up my Christmas list.

I have a pair of Tasco 7X50 binoculars but they are the type that requires adjusting the focus for each eye. I'd like to get a pair of center focus binoculars.

What suggestions do you have? Also, is it worth the extra $ to get ones with a built-in compass?

We cannot direct the winds but we can adjust our sails.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2009 : 13:32:25

As long as this is a wish list, go all out for a pair of Steiner binocs with compass and rangefinder.
http://www.opticsplanet.net/steiner-7x50-obserever-binoculars-compass.html

On a more realistic note, Nikon makes a very good set, rubber coated, called Nikon Action, 10x50, 6.5 degrees(?), only one eye is adjustable, under $100. They were a gift, and I think my wife got them at REI. also, watch for a sale at WM.
Example:
http://shopping.yahoo.com/p:Nikon%2010x50%20Action:1990816549;_ylt=AtGAc539Gor_rufGxbP0wJEiozkF

Edited by - dmpilc on 07/31/2009 13:37:20

crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2009 : 19:15:19

Randy, let me throw this in. As an old artillery forward observer who used to live by his binoculars, allow me to add these thoughts: 1: 7 x 50 is about the perfect size for marine use. It is powerful enough to see and not so hard to hold steady. When you reach up to about 10 power, it becomes increasingly difficult to hold on target. 50 mm is the most light gathering ability you will find in this range. 2: Individually adjustable eyepieces if they are calibrated, are a lot easier to work with than center focus. By calibrated, I mean that each lens has a focusing ring which is numbered plus and minus, and that there is a marking on the hinge for inter-ocular distance. What this accomplishes is to allow for the different capability of each eye. First you hold the glasses up and squeeze them together until you see a complete circle. Note the degrees on the center hinge. Then put the glasses to your eyes and close one eye, then adjust the other. Note the numerical marking, i.e., +1.5 or -2.0. Then do the same for the other eye. From now on, when you
want to use the glasses you do not have to focus them. You pick them up, fold them to the memorized marking on the center hinge then adjust each of the eyepieces to the memorized marking. Now, before you put the glasses to your eyes you have them spread and focused. You will appreciate this in a busy seaway when you do not have to mess with focusing the darn things and can simply pick them up, adjust them and then look through them.

I would suggest that if your Tascos have these capabilities you do not need new binocs for everyday use. If they do not have these capabilities, then make sure that the ones you buy do have them. Most high line binocs do. Most people don't know how to use the calibrations is all. Now we can all say thanks to the U.S. Army.

Oh, one other thought. Once you have these settings memorized you will look really bright when you pick up a set of strange glasses, adjust them before looking and then put them to your eyes and make no further adjustments. Most good binoculars are calibrated equally.

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

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393 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2009 : 22:46:35

I have a pair of Nikon 10X50's -- great glasses, but too powerful to use on the boat. A couple of years ago I got a pair of the West Marine 7X50 Tahiti glasses: rubber armored, center focus, compass with night light. They're great, especially for the money. I like the compass -- it helps me check bearings, determine whether I'm on a collision course with another boat or not, and serves as a back-up to the bulkhead-mounted compass.

The Tahitis also have long eye relief: if you wear glasses, or sunglasses, long eye relief helps you see the whole field even though your eye is farther back from the exit lenses.

Edited by - Even Chance on 08/01/2009 19:48:39

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2009 : 07:14:06

Charles, I understand your points and they are well taken. I do think I'll go with 7X50. But I am confused about focusing. If I first view an object at 100 yards I focus for that - with both lenses being adjusted. If I then look at an object that is 300 yards away I need to refocus - again with both lenses - correct? That is what I find a hassle. My understanding is that with center focus that you calibrate one eye piece just once (and then mark it for future reference as you note) and then all distance focusing is done through the center control. Is that right?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2009 : 07:46:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 ...My understanding is that with center focus that you calibrate one eye piece just once (and then mark it for future reference as you note) and then all distance focusing is done through the center control. Is that right?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That's always been my experience... I have a little Bushnell that has one adjustable eyepiece and a "butterfly" lever instead of a wheel for the center focus--very quick and easy to adjust for distance. However, I suspect most things you look at on the water will be beyond the binoculars' "infinity" distance, meaning the point past which things at any distance are all in focus. You would only need to re-adjust for something inside of "infinity", which is probably something you wouldn't need the binocs for (unless it's the portlight on a nearby boat).

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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1709 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2009 : 07:46:42

Any marine reference on binoculars will tell yo that 7x50 is the correct size for marine use. I have the manual focus 7x50 Tasco marine binocs with tinted lense. The tinted lenses are great in bright sunlight and in low-viz situations since they tend to clearly define the target.

I also have a compass on mine with light for low-light situations. Unless you are coastal cruising on a large body of water and need to take back azmuths to find your location or need to identify the bearing to an object for manual navigation purposes, don't waste your money. You won't need a compass in you binoculars. I used mine frequently when cruising the York River/Chesapeake Bay area as a member of the Coast Guard Aux. Now that I am coastal cruising on Lake Superior, with a chartplotter, I seldom need to use the compass in my binoculars.

If you really think you need one get a decent hand-bearing compass. In my opinion, they are much easier to use on a heaving deck and probably cheaper than the compass option on a pair of binocs..

Edited by - aeckhart on 08/01/2009 07:49:18

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2009 : 07:55:15

I've got a pair of waterproof Tasco 7x50's with the illuminated compass and rangefinder that I bought quite some time ago. I don't think they have center focus, but they're not here to look at. I've never found the compass or rangefinder all that useful, but I have a KVH electronic rangefinder / 5x scope / compass that's more useful, compact, and light.

When I bought them, I didn't realize the compass wasn't adjustable, so you can't take out declination, which is significant up here (17.5 degrees currently), so you can only get magnetic north, not true north. As it turns out, I can get magnetic out of my GPS, so my bulkhead compass and the GPS are in sync with each other, so in retrospect the un-adjustability of the Tasco's probably isn't that big of a deal, I just remember being very disappointed when I discovered it.

I think if I were buying new binoculars for the boat, I'd be looking at what Steiner, Fujinon, Nikon, Zeiss, Leica, or Swavorski had to offer in a marine binocular. I'd stay with CRCalhoon's recommendations for power, although if you can find a larger objective lens than 50 I'd go for that. The more light you can get in the glasses, the more you can easily see. Of course you could bite the bullet and go for electronically stabilized, but that's an expensive option. Obviously waterproof, which implies dustproof, gas-filled, etc. Good coatings on the lenses which is generally a given, but some are better than others. I would tend to stay with Porro prisms (folded optics) because they're more robust, gather more light, and are easier to manufacture in high quality than an equal performing roof prism pair. Roof prisms provide straighter optics, but a tiny misalignment (like getting dropped to the deck) causes them to be nearly useless. In order to get the resolution of a pair of Porro prism glasses of equal quality, the roof prisms need expensive coatings. You can trade the cost of the coatings for a better pair of Porro prisms.

Don't forget a floaty strap in case they decide to go for a swim.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2009 : 08:02:13

Dave, I am not looking at portlights - no point since they all seem to be tinted!

On our lake we like to check out the various boats including if we are out on race night. We find that we do look at things that are not at "infinity" and so focusing to various distances is something that is needed at times.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2009 : 09:16:30

I have 2 pair of Zeiss binoculars that I bought while the Communists still controlled East Berlin. Would you believe I paid around $20/pair for them? Sorry, Randy, they're not for sale.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2009 : 09:49:55

In addition to the Nikon 10x50's, I also have a pair of Jason brand 7x50 binoculars, easily 15-20 years old, not rubber coated, in a cloth-lined fiberboard type case, very inexpensive brand (Jason also makes low-end telescopes, spotting scopes, etc. In terms of picture, looking at the neighbor's car across the street, not much difference from the 10x50, but the 10x50 does seem to be a bit more sensitive to hand/body movement. I guess on the water with all the various boat movements, that could be an issue. Maybe 7x50 would be better.
both have only one eye adjustment, which I can leave at "0". The Jason has a butterfly center lever and the Nikon has a wheel. I prefer the butterfly lever, it's easier and faster, but perhaps not as precise.

Check [url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/66635/377%20710%201380/712/binoculars/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710%201380&Ne=712&Ntt=binoculars&Ntk=Primary%20Search&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=binoculars&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=5003&subdeptNum=14&classNum=12353"]these[/url] out at WM:

OR [url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/66640/377%20710%201380/712/binoculars/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710%201380&Ne=712&Ntt=binoculars&Ntk=Primary%20Search&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=binoculars&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=5003&subdeptNum=14&classNum=12353"]this[/url] one.

Edited by - dmpilc on 08/01/2009 21:55:50

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2009 : 19:55:36

I'm a BIG fan of waterproof...we don't need to discuss why....

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2009 : 21:05:33

A suggestion for entering URLs so that they don't expand everyone's reading pane into the next room...

1. Highlight and "copy" (Ctrl-C) the URL.

2. In your post, type something like "West Marine deal".

3. In the Format Mode box above, select "Prompt".

4. Hightlight what you typed, and then click

4. In the pop-up box, "paste" (Ctrl-V) the URL and click OK.

Your typed phrase will appear as a highlighted link, and the long URL will be invisible.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2009 : 21:56:34

Fixed.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2009 : 06:32:18

WOW - that's cool Dave

Any other little functional secrets you care to share??

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2009 : 10:18:49

A point worth noting about use of binoculars.

At night, do no look directly at the target! focus slightly to the left or right of it and it will seem suprisingly clear compared to the direct view.

Reason.. probably some optics specialist here can correct me, but I believe it is due to the black and white sensors in the eyes being more sensitive than color receptors and they mostly surround the center of the eye, hence better view off center and night.

Paul

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2009 : 10:36:25

It's due to the difference between [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoreceptor_cell"]rod & cone receptors in your eyes[/url].

Read the Wikipedia link above if you want to learn more, but Paul's exactly right, looking off to the side to view something at night is very effective. I wonder how much of a difference it really makes with binoculars though? Your eyes only get the light that the binoculars transmit, but I suppose the looking off to the side would still allow you to see more of the transmitted light. Dunno, I'll have to try next time I'm down at the boat at night.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2009 : 19:05:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 A point worth noting about use of binoculars. At night, do no look directly at the target!...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Going back to Charles Calhoun's observation, if you know where "infinity" is for your eyes using your binocs (for 7x50s it's generally around 20-25 yards), and you remember or set the focus there, anything beyond that distance will be in focus--period. You can further adjust for eye differences with the individual eyepiece adjuster. Charles's suggestion is right on--beyond that specific distance, set it and forget it (or remember it).

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2009 : 19:57:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 A point worth noting about use of binoculars. At night, do no look directly at the target!...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Going back to Charles Calhoun's observation, if you know where "infinity" is for your eyes using your binocs (for 7x50s it's generally around 20-25 yards), and you remember or set the focus there, anything beyond that distance will be in focus--period. You can further adjust for eye differences with the individual eyepiece adjuster. Charles's suggestion is right on--beyond that specific distance, set it and forget it (or remember it).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'll try that but it sure seems like I refocus even on objects at 50, 100, etc yards. I'll try this technique. Sure would be easier.

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2009 : 05:55:14

Randy

I bought a set of Canon optical stabilized binoculars last year. Grant you you have to be careful with them (as in water!) they are pretty incredible for a moving boat on the water. A simple press of the button and everything smoothes out and you can read text and actually make out what your seeing. I really weighed the waterproof vs stabilization but I am glad I made this choice. If you would like to try them I bought mine at Cabellas.

About $375.00

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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1181 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2009 : 07:48:42

I use a pair of Bushnell Perma Focus Binoculars that do not require focusing. I have a pair of binocs with the fast zoom lever and thumbwheel focus which are practically useless on a bobbing boat. I can site in on a breaching whale or harbor marker quite nice with the Bushnell's. Cabela's sells the Bushnells.

[url="http://www.cabelas.com/p-0028431711287a.shtml"]Bushnell Perma Focus Binoculars[/url]

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 08/03/2009 : 09:05:10

To Focus a set of binoxs select something that stands out in a distinct focal plane at a distance of about 5 car lengths, like a Stop sign at 1/4 block away. Try to relax you eyes. When you focus your eyes up close they are not relaxed, so relax as though you are looking into the distance. Shut the eye on the side that has the -4 to +4 adjustments on the oculars, and look at the Stop Sign and quickly focus with the binoculars focusing knob that affects both sides. Switch eyes that are open/shut and turn the one ocular focus to the + side until you blurr the stop sign completely and turn it back to the - direction until it is in focus again.

Repeat and notice your setting. The goal is to make the focal plane the same on both eyes. You should be able to look at the stop sign and move the binox focus ( that effects both eyes ) for either eye and the other should also be correct.

Whatever this setting is ( mine is -2 on the left eye ) should always be similar on each set of binox.

The binoxs can be difficult on your vision if the PD (Pupilary Distance, or how far apart the oculars are) is incorrect and if the focal planes are different for each eye.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2009 : 09:33:11

A pair of electronic stabilization binocs is what I have on my wish list!

My Pentax 8x50's are crystal clear for bird watching, and my little 8x23's are convenient for hanging on my neck all day on the boat. But on the boat, neither of them is optimal.

Edit: The Pentax binoculars are 8x40. Details.

Edited by - JohnP on 08/10/2009 10:41:33

glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2009 : 15:58:07

We have a pair of WM 7x50's that are focused at infinity. As Charles and others have noted they are very easy to use. The one catch, however, is that the Admiral and my eyes are quite different so correcting the eye pieces when passing the binocs back and forth quickly becomes tedious. I am not sure that would be much lessened using a center focus binoc, however.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2009 : 17:14:10

I have WM Tahiti 7x50's and love them. As noted, an uncorrected and uncompensated compass is only good for relative bearings, but I find that useful. The WM's are extremely bright and clean - check the PS binocular review to see how impressed they were with them. The Admiral has WM Tongas - very light weight. 7X50's are almost univerally recommended for their low light performance - the exit pupil is the same diameter as a fully dialated human eye, but they are not really necessary for daytime use. In haze, decent 7x50's will look brighter and create an impression of greater resolution, but there won't really be anymore data in the image than in a comparable pair of 7x35's. We tried to find 7x35's for Chris, but they seem to have become an endangered species.

Higher light transmission, resolution and mechanical controls seperate inexpensive binocs from moderate priced ones. There is more to it than this, but basically, pin cushion and barrel distortion and brand name seperate moderate priced ones from expensive ones. Image stabilization stays in an exquisite and very expensive class. Compare binocs by looking through tem, and not through a store window. Look at overall image brightness, contrast, eye relief, ease of focus and stability (once you set the dioptor adjustment on center focus, do both eyes stay sharp throughout the focus range), note any eye strain, then look for the finest detail that is crisp and easily defined, and finally, note the distortion of straight lines at the edges. The final step is deciding where the quality line and money line cross. As an amatuer astronomy buff, I am critical of my optics, but I don't throw my telescopes into a wet, bouncing boat.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2009 : 12:36:21

Christmas? Oh boy, you're are SO into planning!

Our binocular history:

Family supplied Tasco's for many years, my uncle in Florida had a bunch and keep me supplied. They weren't all that good for wet conditions, so we kept good care of them, but they all eventually died with fogging inside.

For the past 15 years I've been doing the West Marine upgrade. First with Huahine, two pair each lasted only a few years, but I figured the price was right, a few bucks for each. Last year I broke open the kitty and bought a pair of Raiateas, pretty much the same but nitrogen filled and much, much clearer, with the better prisms.

After leaving them below for a year or so because the old ones hadn't died yet, we finally started using them. Just a month ago they started fogging up! So, I brought them back to WM last week and got a brand new pair, no questions asked (I had saved my receipt). Turns out they have a 30 year warranty!!! The Tahitis are the next step up with the built in compass.

Over the years I've considered the Big Bucks models, but could never justify it, and I haven't dropped even a winch handle overboard in 35 years - OK, OK, here it comes now...

I lied: I did drop hats, sunglasses and one brand new (of course0 sailing glove. Whew, almost lost it there...

I do not feel the need for the compass or the rangefinder because we have other better ways to do that, like our compass card and a chart. I also like the cleanliness of the view without interruption. We don't even have a handheld compass on board, we use the main compass card, and I can tell crossing situations from the stanchions.

I like the center focus, that separate eyepiece thing is just worthless. Redeye's recommendations are the basic focusing instructions included with the binoculars, which many folsk tend to neglect. I also found my eyes actually have improved over the last five years, from a + setting back to 0 and I passed the eye test when renewing my drivers license last year, too.

Anything other than 7x50s make no sense on a boat, this has been discussed til the cows came home - 'nuff said.

The Raiateas also have the flip back for glasses feature, but I never bother, using them with sunglasses works just fine. Fact is, I tried that idea years ago and found it pretty worthless.

There's also one in between, the Tonga, pretty much the same as the Raiatea, but aluminum housing, not worth the price difference.

Speaking of price difference, everybody who owns a boat never buys anything at full price, do they? Shop wisely, but if you can get what's necessary for less, why spend more for more? Just a philosophical outlook here, I suppose.

My recommendation: Raiatea - great price, easy-to-use center focus, full warranty, so now I'll NEVER have to BUY another pair of binoculars EVER again because if they fail, they'll get replaced, the view is outstandingly clear and I couldn't tell the difference between them and the Steiners when I originally bought them.

Edited by - Stu Jackson C34 on 08/05/2009 14:57:46

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